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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that Islamist Extremism is on the rise in Britain as well as the rest of Europe?

747 replies

DikTrom · 02/08/2014 11:57

In schools, local communities, pro ISIS demonstrations etc. with Muslim leaders remaining silent.

Is this something new or was it always there right under the surface?

Have we been to tolerant to people who openly reject our values and want to overthrow our society?

OP posts:
nicename · 04/08/2014 17:24

25% are 'extremist'. What is their definition of 'extreme'. I'd be interested to see their research.

MrsBoldon · 04/08/2014 18:05

I too am very interested in this research.

1 in 4 Muslims are 'hellbent on the destruction of western values'????

OneStepCloser · 04/08/2014 18:08

Where do I find the national intelligence reports?

Greengrow · 04/08/2014 18:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fun1nthesun · 04/08/2014 18:52

I would say its less open myself....

greeneggsandjam · 04/08/2014 19:46

Islam requires you to want death for unbelievers ..... really Greengrow?? I think not. You appear to be taking things out of context.

I want to see these national intelligence reports too. Someone must have spent a long time asking all Muslims lots of questions to have figures out their levels of extremism. Do tell us your stories if you were one of these Muslims questioned!

MrsBoldon · 04/08/2014 20:47

The Qur'an also states 'That if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder or to spread corruption in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind and if anyone saved a life - it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind'.

It also says 'let there be no compulsion in Religion'.

Religious scripture is always open to interpretation. One set of people will see it one way, others another and always using it to support their own view. It's simplistic to suggest the entire Qu'ran orders death for unbelievers.

My friend grew up in Apartheid in SA and remembers The Bible being used as justification. The Bible is also clear on condemnation for homosexuality.

It also says 'slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear'. But it does say that if a man beats his slave with a club and he dies as a result of the beating the master should be punished' so - slavery, fine as is beating them as long as they don't die. I'm just using that as one example of Christian scripture since we're talking about what the Qu'ran says.

Backinthering · 04/08/2014 20:51

Fuck me it's quite the bigot-fest on this thread. I have reported....

greeneggsandjam · 04/08/2014 21:03

Reported for people sharing their views?

redrubyindigo · 04/08/2014 21:04

I said up thread;

We are all just a bunch of fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on.

Which God commanded what? Hmm

Here are some bricks, build a bridge and get over it.

aurthersleep · 04/08/2014 21:10

greeneggsandjam
We are not allowed to talk about certain topics and Islamic extremism is one of them, just look at the first reply in the topic from Nancy which totally changed the subject to catholic priests

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 04/08/2014 21:11

Yes to ruby!

Greengrow · 04/08/2014 21:13

The sooner there is no religion on the planet the better. Christianity in its past has been no better. We are allowed to express pro atheist views in the UK although of course not in Muslim lands like Saudi Arabia which says it all.

nicename · 04/08/2014 21:25

Islam requires you to want death for unbelievers I guess in the way that christians believe that if you don't believe/are naughty you go to hell (with fiery demons poking you in the bum with a pitchfork for all eternity).

None of my muslim relies have ever tried to murder me, or carved a tombstone.

I'd love to see that research.

MorphineDreams · 04/08/2014 21:28

Not one single religion follows the book to the letter, which is why it makes me laugh when they preach about certain things and feel so strongly about them, yet completely ignore others. You either believe in this book so strongly you do everything it says, or you don't. You can't just pick and chose.

I don't know any person who follows their religion to the tea. Everyone is hypocritical.

MrsBoldon · 04/08/2014 21:48

But it's not about Religious dogma or suppressing opinions when it's a thread that says 'have we been too tolerant to people who openly reject our views and want to overthrow our society' and then includes posts about 'all Muslim streets' (oh the horror!) and complaining about supermarkets selling clothing saying 'My first Eid'.

That's utterly rejecting the idea that Muslims are part of our society and should be treated as such.

Talk of 'if I did that in their country' blah blah are just ignorant. What country? What? that country that ALL Muslims come from? - Where is that?.

What about British Muslims who were born here? Where are they 'from'?. Anyone that has seen the news knows that there are several white British Muslims who converted to Islam (or reverted depending on your view) serving prison sentences for plotting terrorism in the name of Islam. Watch 'My brother the terrorist' if you'd like.

'We' as in who? Have been 'too tolerant' to who? People that were probably born here? So in what way have we been 'too tolerant'? About what?.

Yes extremism in any group is dangerous and should be acknowledged and discussed but when it's surrounded by obviously bigoted views about a particular group of people then it's off to a bad start really.

And I really hate this attitude of 'we've been too tolerant'. It's a hangover from colonialism which everyone needs to get over. It's the idea that anyone of a different heritage to White British should be eternally grateful that we let them live here and it isn't extended to white British people so it is racist in origin.

Mumblepot26 · 04/08/2014 22:54

Hiddenhome, Hamas have talked about wiping Israel off the map, Israel ARE wiping Palestinians off the map...and still the sick sick irony is that people regard Hamas as worse ..

Mumblepot26 · 04/08/2014 22:56

Oh and mrsBolden... You fucking rock lady!!!

Mumblepot26 · 04/08/2014 22:58

Oh and mrsBolden... You fucking rock lady!!!

SuperWifeANDMum · 04/08/2014 23:38

The statistics I read we're taken from a panel investigating the Bengazi attacks.

This data was compiled from The USA government intelligence reports which I would rather believe than some people on mumsnet who shout 'Racist' if you dare post opposing views on religion.

This is directed to the posters who are banding around the racist card, look at what Islamic extremism is doing to Iraq and Syria. There is a very real potential that could happen here in Britain. We have already seen the Trojan Horse operation at the school in Birmingham and many more schools were identified at being culpable to Islamic extremism.

It's not the peaceful 75% of Muslims we need to worry about it's the 25% radical extremist Muslims we need to be concerned about. It's on our doorstep now and not just confined to the Middle East so stop trying to brush it under the carpet.

gordyslovesheep · 04/08/2014 23:41

can you clarify those figures - 25% where does that come from then - the top of your head

oh and the 'trojan horse' investigation is massively flawed - hth x

SuperWifeANDMum · 04/08/2014 23:44

gordyslovesheep did you read my post? I stated that these figures came from a panel discussing the Bengazi attacks! So not the top of my head. hth

hiddenhome · 05/08/2014 00:06

The Trojan Horse investigation is 'massively flawed'?

Hmm

'Clear evidence' are the words I keep reading from many different sources.

hiddenhome · 05/08/2014 00:09

BBC report

Greengrow · 05/08/2014 08:33

I don';t think we have been too tolerant at all. I think we all have the right to shout from the rooftops how awful and sexist many of us think all religions are which we don't have in most muslim lands sadly. Let us hope we can ensure the Saudis let me one day write there what I can write on mumsnet and even let me drive a car or show my body and even inherit the same sum as a man would.

People can believe as they like but we need to fight hard to maintain our rights of free speech including rights for people whose views we dislike whether that be holocaust denial or sexist views. We should be just as free to say blacks should inherit less than whites in the same way the Muslims say women should inherit half of what men do. Yet we tolerate the islamic sexism in ways we would not if we substituted colour for sex. We need to be consistent.

As for death for those who reject their faith that has hardly been out of the news recently - in Somalia - Mariam or whatever she was called.

"Apostasy in Islam (Arabic: ???? riddah, literally means: "relapse" or "regress" but usually translates to "apostasy", or ?????? irtid?d) is commonly defined in Islam as the rejection in word or deed of one's former religion (apostasy) by a person who was previously a follower of Islam. Islamic scholarship differs on the appropriate punishment for the apostate (or murtad ???? ), which ranges from execution – based on an interpretation of certain hadiths – to no punishment at all as long as they do not rebel against the Islamic society or religion.[1] A significant minority of contemporary Muslim scholars (and twelve Muslim-majority countries[2] hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment until repentance, at least for adult men of sound mind.[3][4][5]"

My post about apostasy was censored above. Presumably the wiki post above will not be which says twelve whole muslim majority countries believe in death if you reject Islam - that is twelve countries, not 12 mad men. It is a massive amount and something we all need to work against whether atheist or muslim or any other religion. In fact it says 13 here:

"There Are 13 Countries Where Atheism Is Punishable by Death". The Wire. Retrieved 24 July 2014. "The countries that impose these penalties are Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. With the exception of Pakistan, those countries all allow for capital punishment against apostasy, i.e., the renunciation of a particular religion. Pakistan, meanwhile, imposes the death penalty for blasphemy, which can obviously include disbelief in God."