AIBU to think that Islamist Extremism is on the rise in Britain as well as the rest of Europe?

[DikTrom]

In schools, local communities, pro ISIS demonstrations etc. with Muslim leaders remaining silent.

Is this something new or was it always there right under the surface?

Have we been to tolerant to people who openly reject our values and want to overthrow our society?

I don't know anyone who believes in death to anyone who isn't 'a believer'.

Don't mistake the rule of a bunch of idiots (desperate to keep power over the masses by scaring them to death and keeping their minds on everyday things rather that little things like, oh say the economy). So if I were in Pakistan, then maybe I would 'agree' on paper to whatever madcap idea thrown up by those in charge if I feared for my life.

Some countries will be more 'historic' than others when it comes to laws. It wasn't all that long ago that witches were burned here. I'm not sure if religions go through a birth - growth/desperation - decline pattern. Maybe.

Depressing thread. Still unsure how events in Libya can be extrapolated to every Muslim on earth.

Also, why do so many think that everything that happens in Muslim majority countries is only to do with Islam, when politics, economics and post-colonialism are also important.

Finally, if we're on about the harm a few violent extremist can do, I agree. Just wondering where the thread on white, Norwegian men is.

Gosh, do you think that some of the fears expressed on this thread go some way to explaining (not justifying) why there has been so little done about the civil war in Syria, or the current fighting as Lebanon tries to repel attackers from Syria?
Muslims killing Muslims doesn't seem to warrant as much interest for some reason, even though civillians and children are the victims.

Maybe I'm not educated enough, but I believe hateful people of any colour, religion or country will seize onto an extremist cause if it gives them 'justification' to harm those who they hate, for whatever reason.

I certainly agree that we should seek to spread tolerance. 12 or 13 countries give death to those who want to cease being muslim. That is an appalling statistic. All we need to do is move Islam forward in the way Christianity moved forward and it will happen with Western influence. I am hopeful. However it requires a lot of re-education and exposure to feminism and Western values.

Also, why do so many think that everything that happens in Muslim majority countries is only to do with Islam, when politics, economics and post-colonialism are also important. (not jus these, also include male dominance).

Good point. Also many, many countries were doing quite well, thank you, before Islam was imposed on them. I am beginning to think that maybe religion is the root of evil and not the love of money.

Depressing thread indeed...

However it requires a lot of re-education and exposure to feminism and Western values.

I'm not with you there though... it needs a re-education in the fundamentals of Islam, and a progressive interpretation of the religion for the modern world.

You could build a very fair and peaceable religion from any holy book, but also a very nasty, vicious and murderous one too.

I can make common cause with you over religion having some pretty awful effects. Most people in the UK don't believe in God so religion is on the way out anyway. I am just pleased we are allowed to express atheist views here and in the UK in general which is not permitted in many countries. Half of Americans apparently believe that humans were on the planet when dinosaurs was. Ridiculous religious views are not confined to Islam.

Yes you can find a lot of violence in the Koran if you look for it - there are quotes on Fitna on youtube and in many other places, but also a lot of kindness and goodness in most religions too. It is just men (and it is just about always men, never women) who seek to suggest these invented rules from those old fashioned days in the desert are the words of some God and secondly interpret them so as to ensure they retain power over women and to control the sexuality of their women.

I'm sure I could make a pretty nasty religion out of the' Good Works of St Delia'. I may do this when I have some time on my hands for my own amusement.

It's all about man and power (and money). Religion gets hauled in because if you speak on behalf of the great 'man' (or woman) upstairs, who can speak against you?

It is changing. There are more and more atheists on the planet which may be why some of the religions feel threatened it is their death throes as it were.

Most religious people are good and kind.

You get good and bad in all walks of life. I've met rotten religious folks and lovely, kind atheists.

The worst type of people in ny view are the stuborn pig-heads who won't entertain the fact that anyone could possibly be allowed to have an opinion different from theirs.

I think that's the key nicename.
Believe what you like but it shouldn't mean you feel you have the right to convert others or force them to live according to your individual beliefs. Regardless of whether that's atheism or a belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Some religions evangelise forcefully, some regimes ban anything contrary to what Big Brother dictates. That's where it becomes evil and oppressive and dangerous to others.

Many religions have been introduced at the point of a sword. That's what so many people forget.

Don't diss the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Bless his noodley goodness.
I find evangelical fanatics of any faith or creed or belief very worrying. Few can debate and listen as well as proclaim.

As I frequently say to DS - "if your gob is open, yer ears aint".

It's not the peaceful 75% of Muslims we need to worry about it's the 25% radical extremist Muslims we need to be concerned about. It's on our doorstep now and not just confined to the Middle East so stop trying to brush it under the carpet

^ yes.

I just don't see 25% of Muslims worldwide as being radical extremists. It's a very very high number (can someone please point me in the direction of that report?).

Even if it were 0.5%, it is worrying. Political idealists are bad enough, but religious nutters are the most worrying.

The problem is, this subject is hard to discuss, I stand by my point that I personally don't really think it's on the rise it is just that this is this decades bogey man.

With each bogeyman there is an element of truth, however much we want to internalise the problem it will at some point need addressing and open discussion

I look to this forum for the feminist stance on controversial topics yet it seems to have a blind spot when it comes down to certain aspects of Islam.

Criticism of Islam is not permitted.

In Sweden it is illegal.

All belief systems should be open to public scrutiny and should be able to bear criticism.

In the UK criticism of Islam is permitted. For example women lobbying have resulted in the Law Society guidance on Sharia wills link being removed on their website (which says women inherit half what men do).

There have been some instances in the UK where because Mulsim reaction would be violent and extreme with fatwas etc it has been curbed when similar criticism of Christianity would not be which is unfair. We should be allowed to draw cartoons of the prophet just as much as we can draw cartoons of Jesus. The fact one group who believe in an invented God will react worse than another should be totally irrelevant to the laws on free speech. Just of course as we should allow Muslims and Christians to give their views. The freedom of speech in a liberal democracy is what we are seeking to retain. Eg we have the right to say that 13 Muslim countries provide for death for muslims who change religion. It is not illegal to state that fact.

Websites of course are a bit different as they want revenue and they want to keep posters happy so they will naturally remove posts if people object to them and that is their right. They also do not have time to spend too long on deciding what is right to retain and what should be removed. That gives a lot of power to those whose feelings are often and easily hurt or want to censor.

The

Even in the UK it becomes more difficult to criticize Islam:

LSE students banned

Reading university

Freedom of speech seems to be a bit of a one way thing at several UK universities, anything to do with huge foreign donations by any chance?????