Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that Islamist Extremism is on the rise in Britain as well as the rest of Europe?

747 replies

DikTrom · 02/08/2014 11:57

In schools, local communities, pro ISIS demonstrations etc. with Muslim leaders remaining silent.

Is this something new or was it always there right under the surface?

Have we been to tolerant to people who openly reject our values and want to overthrow our society?

OP posts:
Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 08/08/2014 18:28

Still at it then I see ha ha Grin

Flipflops7 · 08/08/2014 18:30

No Phaedra, I expect many are non-believers, I am one myself, but if you are an insider you know all the really good jokes. I don't think someone without an Anglican background could have written All Gas and Gaiters or Vicar of Dibley. Plus if you are mocking something you need to be an insider or it just looks mean. I don't think it matters if people have become atheists, they will still get the humour. Never Mind the Quality ... wouldn't have been funny if written by non-Jews.

Flipflops7 · 08/08/2014 18:32

Dave Allen was an atheist and no-one was funnier about the Catholic Church. My parents (believers) adored him.

Softlysoftlycatchymonkey · 08/08/2014 18:38

I had a pro Israel leaflet put through the door a few days ago. Only noticed it yesterday, thought it was another take away flyer. Went straight in the bin

cote that was my post on part 4 of the Israel and Palestinian thread, before you you went on your bizzare un called for rant to me the other day. You know where you called me you people....(pro Israel)

Do you feel a bit silly now?

nicename · 08/08/2014 19:44

I'm not rising to anything (don't think I'm being provoked).

Mullah Nasriddin is very much seen in Iran as a 'local hero'. At home we often say 'it'like Mullah Nasridin and the donkey/sauna/singing in the bath! Heehee!'

I'm not sure he is thought of as Turkish there, in fact I'm sure he's not. I'll ask. I think he is very funny and could easily be a vicar, rabbai, bank manager or teacher.

Religion ought to have humour. A lot is rather universal. Comedy (and other) writers do ask say, a vicar for his/her advice if writing about vicars.

CoteDAzur · 08/08/2014 21:50

You're right, nicename - I'm not provoking you in the least.

I'm surprised that Iranians would think of Nasreddin Hodja as their local hero. Iirc he was born in Sivrihisar and lived all his life in Aksehir near Konya in the middle of Turkey, nowhere near Iran. There is an annual Nasreddin Hodja Festival in Aksehir, where his tomb is.

PhaedraIsMyName · 08/08/2014 22:41

FilpFlops so ate there any Muslim equivalents of Dave Allen pointing out the absurdity of believing that if a woman doesn't go out wearing her own exclusive tent men won't be able to control their lust?

Flipflops7 · 08/08/2014 22:52

No idea Phaedra though it's quite a thought :)

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/08/2014 23:02

Shazia Mirza is a Muslim comedian who does joke about issues like dress.

One quick example
m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24862241

PhaedraIsMyName · 08/08/2014 23:53

Yes. I've heard her on Radio 4. She's not funny.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/08/2014 08:42

Phaedra
Maybe you aren't her target audience? I doubt there are many comedians that are universally considered funny. Nevertheless she is an example of a Muslim making jokes about Muslims.

PhaedraIsMyName · 09/08/2014 09:36

Presumably if she's on Radio 4 her target audience includes Radio 4 listeners

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/08/2014 10:02

I don't think Radio 4 audiences are a homogeneous group.

greeneggsandjam · 09/08/2014 10:36

Are you friends with any exclusive tent wearers Phaedra?

greeneggsandjam · 09/08/2014 10:44

Shazia Mirza is about as funny as the BBC sitcom Citizen Khan. I have watched her on TV a couple of times and while some of the things she came out with were mildly amusing most of it was cringe worthy. I have often wondered who she wants to appeal to. I just hope she doesn't look back in a few years and regret some of the silly jokes she has made. Or maybe I should hope that she comes to her senses and regrets them enough to give it all up and move on to something else.

PhaedraIsMyName · 09/08/2014 20:07

Are you friends with any exclusive tent wearers Phaedra?

No I'm not although why that might be relevant on whether I'm entitled to have an opinion on burqas or to find Shazia Mirza unfunny escapes me.

greeneggsandjam · 09/08/2014 20:29

It has nothing to do with your opinion on Shazia Mirza. I just wondered about being friends with anyone who chooses to wear absurd clothing like exclusive tents.

I just thought that was quite a rude comment, referring to (not sure exactly what piece you were referring to) Muslim women's dress in such a way.

I wondered how your Muslim friends might have felt about your opinions but as you say you don't actually have any friends who wear exclusive tents so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

PhaedraIsMyName · 09/08/2014 20:36

I think it would be extremely unlikely I would be friends with a woman who chose to dress in that way. You tend to be friends on the whole with people who have at least something in common with you.

My own view is it is incompatible with feminism, insulting to men and I would probably be as likely to be friends with anyone wearing a burqa as I'd be friends with a member of the BNP or a Christian fundamentalist.

AtheistBitch · 09/08/2014 20:45

Extremism is a serious issue in this country as is discrimination against Muslims. I don't care if you are uncomfortable with niqabs or burkhas. Yes they can sometimes be offensive to the eye but it doesn't physically effect you in anyway. Get over it already.
I'd much rather be friends with someone who wore "exclusive tents" than someone wearing shorts shorter than their vagina.

greeneggsandjam · 09/08/2014 20:47

Riiiight. And aside from the fact that you find the exclusive tent demeaning to women and insulting to men, you don't think there is a possibility that you would have something in common with a tent wearer?

What a boring life to only speak to people who look the same and like the same things as you. If you don't interact with people from other walks of life how can you ever begin to understand them and break down barriers?

I'm glad I'm friends with a variety of tent wearers and bare-legs-in-the-street-goers.

Stressing · 09/08/2014 21:45

I don't worry about personal expression of religion - hijab, t-shirts with 'my first Eide', whatever. Each to their own I say. So long as people aren't pressing their views on another, then wear what you want.

But I do worry about the incompatibility of the Muslim religion with the libertarian West. The two cannot in my opinion exist side by side - one side will always be oppressed by the other. At the moment in Britain, because only 8% I think are Muslim (or thereabouts) it's the Muslim population that is the unheard minority - bad for them. However, if population trends continue as they are now then Britain is very likely to have a democratically elected Islamic government in about thirty-years time.

As a non Muslim - a western feminist - that is happy with her life just as it is; and as a woman with a daughter, this worries me. I don't want to live by Islamic rule as my own personal belief system rebukes it.

Anyone who lives in Britain who values the common civil liberties they have should worry about this. True, Britain is not perfect, and it's easy to find wrong-doing and corruption. But at the centre of its value system is freedom, liberty and democracy. these are the fundamental principles it stands for. Britain leads the way in promoting equality. It doesn't tell you what to wear, what to eat, how to behave.

And before I am flamed for making sweeping assumptions about the Muslim religion just look at any website and you'll find terrifying sentiments for instance this little corker 'Allah has already confirmed its validity as clearly stated in the Noble Quran: “Marry of the women that please you, two, three or four, but if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly with them, then only one.” Islam and the Muslim faith has not changed for 2000 years. Mohammed was a war-lord, a plunderer. It is dominated by men - even to the point where Muslim men are driven in this world by the promise of 30 virgins in paradise. Muslim women, on the other hand, do not have 30 buff teenage boys to look after their every whim. Oh no. Allah knows what women want. Jewels and gold apparently, and a rest. Even in paradise women are told what they need and want. And what about the Muslim's view of the infidels and what should happen to the none-believers? Am I am wrong in the fact that these teachings are mainstream views? If so, let me know and I'll hold my hands up but this is all over the internet on general Islamic sites.

I'm very wary of the Muslim religion - and it's not a 'phobia' because that suggests an irrational fear of something and my fear of Islam is not irrational - it's been carefully considered!

If we do not have sensible discussions about race and religion - if anyone voicing an opinion is branded a racist at the mere criticism of someone else's belief system then Britain is leaving itself wide open to an unstoppable force. There is no shame is standing up for what you believe in - I believe in liberty, freedom, equality. Muslim's believe in discipline, order, tradition. I like my life in Britain as it is but my way of life is under threat because as far as I can tell practicing Muslim's are by default part of a crusading religion because 'spreading the word' and 'world domination' lies at the centre of the Muslim belief system. If you're a Muslim and you think I'm wrong, let me know. I'd love to have an open debate about this.

DikTrom · 09/08/2014 22:04

Very good post Stressing and an interesting point raised re Muslim families who tend to have many children compared with most indiginous Brits (or other Western Europeans for that matter). Something to think about for sure.

OP posts:
greeneggsandjam · 09/08/2014 22:14

I think you all need to be brave and get yourselves some Muslim acquaintances if not friends. I wouldn't be visiting websites to build up an accurate idea of what the average Muslims in the UK thinks and wants.

dawndonnaagain · 09/08/2014 22:55

and your evidence of that is where? Dik

PhaedraIsMyName · 09/08/2014 23:13

green why should I be friends with someone who thinks the female body is so shameful or so inspiring of men's lust that it must be covered from head to toe ? I doubt that other than being female we'd have anything in common.

Should I add a few friendly homophobes into my friendship mix as well to make life more interesting?