AIBU to think that Islamist Extremism is on the rise in Britain as well as the rest of Europe?

[DikTrom]

In schools, local communities, pro ISIS demonstrations etc. with Muslim leaders remaining silent.

Is this something new or was it always there right under the surface?

Have we been to tolerant to people who openly reject our values and want to overthrow our society?

Cote, to some Muslims, depicting God, Mohammed, humans or animals in art form is considered forbidden. To others, it's only God and the Prophet.
Depends on the interpretation they have made.

Wtf us going on at mumsnet these days? It's full of nasty goody posters who have a real them and us mentality. For the first time in a decade I'm actually ready to delete my account.

In answer to the question, no I don't think Islamic extremism.is on the rise. I'm Jewish and I can tell you that this last month I have been berated and called a self hating jew and anti semitic because I have sympathised with palestinian children being blown apart.

For the first time in my life I have come across zionist in jews who are racist and ignorant and so if anything is on the rise in my circle it's zionistic extremism.

Islamophobia is definitely on the rise in Europe. And mumsnet.

A good lot of Muslim women my age who were more than happy to cast off stupid clothing a generation ago and don't cover are very alarmed their teenage and 20 something daughters are going backwards in that respect and some of those youngsters see it as their rebellion from parents to be more extreme than the parents
I absolutely agree with this, and I suspect all Muslims I know would also agree (disclaimer: I know only secular to moderate Muslims)
But, I must draw a parallel. I grew up in fairly secular USA - culturally Catholic- and nearly everyone that I grew up with is now properly religious.

Some really bigoted views on here.

Hope the bigots are not passing racism on their kids. How fucking depressing is this thread. A bunging to see who can be the most offensive and vile about Muslims and Islam.

Bun fight. Not bunging. Obviously.

"A good lot of Muslim women my age who were more than happy to cast off stupid clothing"... very nice Greengrow.

With regards to the minority group stuck at the top of a mountain, no normal Muslim/human being would wish that upon anyone. Unfortunately there are lots of people who consider themselves to be Muslim but may not have much knowledge or may have been brought up surrounded by teachers with extreme views. Actually, you can look at lots of so called Muslims here in this country who really don't have the first idea about Islam and who really are quite an embarrassment . Anyway, not all are like that but most likely they are the ones who stand out to the world.

My hijab, which is apparently "stupid clothing", may only be made of fabric, but I suspect it has a greater level of intelligence then some posts made here.

I don't even know where to start. Even by the lowly standards of the endless Muslamic Panic threads on Mumsnet, this one is full of ill-informed dross.

The only pleasing thing is that I'm not the only one who thinks this.

crescentmoon your post on the previous page was spot on.

I also agree that of have hoped for better than some of the ignorant nonsense spouted here. Get out and meet more people, people!

diktrom it's a shame for you that you can't whip up the dangerous islamophobia that you are trying to create. Why don't you stop trying now?

DikTrom do you know what a "goady fucker" is in MN lingo?

I agree with Gosh re the ignorance on this thread.

It's not often that you find me teaching people about Islam around here. I have no love for any religion but many people here need to stop getting their info from Daily Mail.

Read a book maybe, or ask a Muslim person why they do what they do. Most people on this thread would benefit from some facts and human interaction.

"Muslim extremists are a thorn in our community"

Which community would that be, OP? I'm in N London and there's no 'thorn' 'round my way. Where exactly do you live?

It appears she lives in the Netherlands. Do you have anything to do with the Dutch cartoons that popped up a few years ago OP??

So tell us about the terrible Muslim communities in the Netherlands that you obviously know so much about as you no doubt mix with them on a regular basis.

Ah yes, the Netherlands, that massive bastion of frothing ISIS armies and gigantic swathes of Crusading Jihadists ....

Seriously though, OP : there are religious nutters in every religion. Mad Catholics, mad Muslims and mad Jews:

There are loony homophobic Christians in the US who want Barack Obama 'sent back' (dunno where) because he isn't a nice white boy. There are raging Zionists who see the Palestinans as 'snakes' (thanks Ayelet Shaked) who should be killed at birth. And there are crazed Islamic fundoes who kill women if they set foot outside the door without a male relative. All have perpetuated atrocities throughout history and do so now. All have been persecuted and are, now. None of them have a monopoly on being either victim or aggressor and if you honestly think that one group has more innate 'badness' than another then you are sadly deluded. This has been the case throughout history.

You want to know how ISIS came into being? they exist because of the political vacuum created by the US and the UK blitzing Iraq and removing their government. So actually it's the fault of the Christians - I seem to recall GWB and TB making a pretty big show of their Christianity - don't you? So ironically, we have the West to thank for ISIS. They are the sad legacy of the Wests deceitful foreign policy Where there's oil, of course.

Just about an hour ago I heard on R4 that two members of Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia have finally been found guilty of war crimes. Two million people were tortured and murdered in the 70s and that had nothing to do with religion AT ALL. Throughout history there have been massacres and pogroms where religion plays no part AT ALL. So stop trying to pretend that Islam is somehow causing all the world's problems and read a little history, why don't you?

Please don't get into inacciurate mocking responses, that's what you are accusing others of.
The cartoons that caused problems were published in Denmark, news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670370.stm
Theo Van Gogh was a Dutch politician murdered by an Islamic radical
www.economist.com/node/3353677

Two countries, known for their liberal attitudes and acceptance of refugees for decades, and now they also have citizens rethinking what should be done to prevent incidents like this recurring.

'Ah yes, the Netherlands, that massive bastion of frothing ISIS armies and gigantic swathes of Crusading Jihadists '

Terrorism is about creating a climate of mistrust and fear and uncertainty. No, there are no hordes of Jihadists in the Netherlands, but that's not how terror destabilises a community or a country is it?
Enough to have the majority population moving towards a siege mentality, a 'Let them kill each other somewhere else and not let them in here' Enough to continue 'othering' and alienation, to ban signs, practices and other cultural manifestations.
Look at the things that have recently been raised here, from FGM, clothing, halal meat to British muslims fighting for ISIS. All negatives, All widening the divisions.

It's not terror destabilising the Netherlands, but racist hatemongers like Geert Wilders. The biggest source of hatred in Europe is fuelled by the Far-Right, yet that seems to be ignored here. Go and Google Golden Dawn for an example.

Down: If the majority (as you claim) is letting the actions of a tiny, tiny minority make them want to force Muslims to leave the country, it says more about the stupidity and sheep tendencies if that majority then it does about Muslims.

How peculiar to lump halal meat in with FGM and ISIS. Do you feel so strongly about Kosher meat?

Cote - I was rather surprised at how much I agreed with your posts However, this thread is a very good example of the level of discourse we have to put up with and it sadly spreads far beyond Mumsnet.

The news doesn't help. I counted 5 of the 6 news items on Radio 4 taking the boys to school earlier this year were all about Muslims, their actions, what they are doing, loads of different countries, Syria, Nigeria. It was constant. So that could be our politicians for political ends giving greater prominence to muslim wars and terror when they could as easily have had an item on about North Korea.

Do we think the new media is choosing to report Muslim violence much more than other wars currently going on on the planet? Is that manipulating people into thinking there are more Muslim countries in turmoil (whether caused by western interference or not - another topic) than christian or atheist?

I am very hopeful. Religion is dying out. Most people in the Uk don't believe in God and feminism is on the rise. So all will be well for liberal democracies and most of those who live in the Uk and believe in some kind of God are tolerated better than in many countries as indeed those who are religious tolerate music in school, mixed sex sex lessons in school, teaching of evolution, equal rights for men and women and homosexuality.

PS

Those with an interest in this area may be interested in The Times' refusal to publish the pro Israel advertisement - article with the ad. at

observer.com/2014/08/exclusive-london-times-rejects-elie-weisel-advertisement-condemning-hamas/

donnie I was enjoying reading your post then got to your second paragraph and it's just bullshit.

No body created ISIS accept ISIS just like all the other despots and crazies in this world.

The west and US may have created a situation but this band of accdental terrorists only have them selfs to blame.

that is very interesting indeed Greengrow. I read through the advert on the link and find it to be pretty racist - but then again I am not a Zionist and I do not support Zionism. The other interesting thing is that it is a PAID advert as opposed to a free charity one.

Yesterday I saw a full paid ad in the Guardian from Save the Children which prints, in tiny white text, the names and ages of all the Palestinian children killed by the IDF in the current Gaza conflict, against a black background. It is really, really powerful. I understand this ad has been refused by many newspapers, including Israeli ones. It works both ways. Maybe someone can link to it - I am useless in this regard.

IMO the paid ads are bound to have an agenda.

"a paid advertising campaign featuring Nobel prize winner Elie Wiesel opposing Hamas’ use of child sacrifice"

"Use of child sacrifice"? Is that what we are now calling the other side bombing children into bloody pieces in their schools?