AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

[DikTrom]

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

Feel free to mention whatever you think is helpful. Again, I never said anything about that. Just the name calling.

I don't understand why new people shouldn't be welcomed onto this thread, but I'll happily criticise them to if necessary.

I thought it better to say something on here and let your post stand rather than report it and mumsnet delete it.

Remember once again it's down to perception though, can't everyone share their opinion without the threat of name calling and belittling. I find it so disheartening when I wake up and find more threads when someone has been accused of being ignorant and uneducated. It reminds me of teaching at school. Children who are belittled in the views they have become more beligerent and firmly entrenched in these views. Shouldn't we be sharing information and knowledge.

I know this is an emotive subject but I am glad to have been able to learn more. I don't think the repeated assertions of baby killer are helpful. Children do die in war fact. The people who cause and perpetrate them are very rarely to

Be seen. (Sorry)

I don't get you cote. Is it any wonder that Jewish people 'by proxy' are getting increasingly unpopular? What on earth do you mean?

I found it quite disheartening to find that a new person had started posting early-morning racist hatred on Mumsnet.

It would be a foolish mistake to pretend that the anti-semitic variety of racism is in some way less forgivable than the other varieties.

Anti-palestinian racism is for some reason more common on mumsnet than anti-semitic racism; yet for some reason complaints of antisemitism are more common than complaints about other varieties of racism.

John - What is it you need help with?

English comprehension or human psychology?

Taken from the Guardian article here

Support for the military operation among the Israeli public remained solid. A poll published by Tel Aviv university this week found 95% of Israeli Jews felt the offensive was justified. Only 4% believed too much force had been used.

However, just because only 4% of the people polled feel that bombing sleeping children in a school is unjustified, it doesn't mean that European Jewry should suffer for it. We should, as a world population, be putting pressure on the perpetrators and not merely their coreligionists who have done no harm. Using the barbarous acts happening in Gaza as an excuse for targeting Jews in other countries is wrong, and the start of the road to madness.

I can separate "Israel, the state" from "Jewish people I meet". Not many can, especially if they don't have any Jewish friends and so can easily "other" them all.

You should try introducing yourself as a Turk to an Armenian to learn about hate by proxy. It is a truly wonderful feeling to be hated by a stranger because of something neither of you were a part of, which happened 100 years ago.

"We should, as a world population, be putting pressure on the perpetrators and not merely their coreligionists who have done no harm"

Oh yes, sure.

And what if every attempt to put pressure on the perpetrator state is blocked?

People are angry. This massacre is happening and it is happening in a democratic country with the support of 96% of its population. I'm not sure that it's crazy to say the population in question is to blame for it.

It's true, some people are really thick and can't discern between Israel and the Jewish people in general.

Oh I see now, you think most people in the world are really thick and they will confuse Jewish people with the Israel. But not you. You would never do that.
Funny. I would never say something like 'Is it any wonder there's so much islamaphobia in the UK, when Muslims keep killing each other!'
It just wouldn't be acceptable to even think that. But you carry on.

I don't think they are thick.

It is human psychology to generalise hatred to people associated with the boogeyman/enemy/monster.

Just ask American Muslims about life in the US shortly after 9/11.

Actually John I was referring to you.

Just ask American Muslims about life in the US shortly after 9/11.

I'm married to one.

Again, it is not about being thick but I went to school with many Jewish children who are now friends, and so do have a rare viewpoint on this for a person who has grown up in a Muslim country.

The vast majority of people living in Muslim countries will have never seen a Jewish person in their lives.

Why after 9/11?

Has there been no violence in the Muslim world since then?

Cote.... You do realise that, in attacking me, you're attacking someone who believes that Israel should be held to account, don't you? That you're attacking someone who was seriously shocked when, having heard that the majority of Israelis don't defend what their government is doing, found out that, in fact, they do?

All I'm saying is that the anger should be directed at the Knesset, the leaders of the IDF and those people who are supporting them within Israel, rather than focusing anger on Jews in other countries.

Justifying painted swastikas on a Synagogue in North London by saying that other people who share the same religion are doing bad things elsewhere is pretty disgusting. In the same way as painting swastikas on Mosques was pretty disgusting in the aftermath of 9/11.

'Those people there, being barbarous' never gives justification for attacking 'these people here'.

I promised pigletjohn that I wasn't just picking on her. Please can we try to keep things respectful. This is an emotive topic, we all know that. Calling each other thick is really not helpful. Stop. If ww can't have a respectful conversation about antisemitism in Europe without resorting to name calling then there's not much hope.

I wasn't attacking you, Capt. Not sure why you would think I was.

All I said was that if 96% of a population backs their government's military slaughter of civilians, it may not be crazy to hold them responsible for that government's actions.

I agree Cote, but that doesn't excuse people attacking Jews elsewhere is all I'm saying..... we may be talking at cross purposes here, sorry

I didn't say it excuses assaulting Jewish people on the street. Of course it doesn't. Those acts should be severely punished to the full extent of the law.

What I am saying is that heightened "anti-semitism" isn't just racist people being racist. Israel's slaughter of innocents, shelling a UN shelter and a school, blowing up scores of children to bloody bits is causing people to hate not only Israel but Jewish people in general.

Cote's absolutely right that it's normal human psychology to generalise, and to distrust the 'other'. If you're not with us you're against us is a dangerous falsehood, but a powerful one rooted in centuries of tribal protection.

I've been hated - hissed & yelled at, shoved & blocked, had stones thrown at me - by black people for being white. What my ancestors did to their ancestors was unforgivable. That people in the present day chose not to forgive me, despite the fact that none of us even met the perpetrators & sufferers, is understandable but still wrong and dangerous.

By exactly the same token it's wrong to judge Jewish people, on a personal level, for what their government does. That government and its supporters are also wrong to kill other people for historical 'reasons', which is what it seems to be doing.

Hate that government's acts, not everyone with cultural connections to its country.

All I said was that if 96% of a population backs their government's military slaughter of civilians, it may not be crazy to hold them responsible for that government's actions.

But who is the 'them' you are referring to? Because this is a thread about anti-Semitism in Europe. So either you are saying 'them' is Israelis, in which case it's not to do with the thread topic, or 'them' is Jews everywhere, which is an appalling attitude.