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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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AIBU, to be concerned about increasing anti-semitism throughout Europe

621 replies

DikTrom · 28/07/2014 21:23

Yesterday's Sunday Times had a number of articles about increased anti-semitism in the UK. Same is happening in the Netherlands and even more so in France and Germany.

OP posts:
AnonyMust · 30/07/2014 03:38

I'm not convinced that the coverage is fair as there's so much more going on than numbers reveal. The number of casualties on both sides is horrific and sad. However, there are reasons why Gaza has many more victims: the cement given to Gaza by Israel to build fortified homes and hospitals for Palestinians has been used by Hamas to build underground tunnels into Israel for the purpose of a mass killing of Jewish people, Hamas choose to use innocent civilians in Gaza as human shields, etc. Israel is being bombed night and day, still now. Most Israelis are and have been in bomb shelters several times a day when sirens sound. This, and more, isn't being shared in the media - just the numbers. And I feel very, very sad that the cement that was intended to protect innocent citizens of Gaza has been manipulated to this effect.

Backinthering · 30/07/2014 06:47

Those tunnels have been used that ring in food and medical supplies as well as weapons. I actually don't think it's helpful to hold up Hamas as this ultimate bogey man. Bear in mind that until this conflict, no rockets were fired since 2012 and in that time, 44 Palestinians were killed.
Israel is basically using the fear of Hamas as justification for their actions.
Sorry for further derail but that was in response to AgonyMust.

BarleyBub · 30/07/2014 07:26

Hamas commander rejects ceasefire, says his soldiers are "eager for death". How can you make peace with people like this?

BarleyBub · 30/07/2014 07:26

Oops, forgot link, here it is: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28554477

DikTrom · 30/07/2014 07:29

So I take it that everybody agrees with me that the increasing anti-semitism against Jewish people here in European countries is a very major cause for concern.

OP posts:
Backinthering · 30/07/2014 07:44

They rejected a cease fire as they want the seige lifted. One could equally argue that Israel could agree to the terms.
But back to the original topic, yes DikTrom the rise of anti-Semitism and general move to the right is a worry. I hope that a lot of it was recession-fueled.
Sadly I do think Israels actions are feeding into the anti-Semitic bigotry, the way 9/11 and some subsequent attacks fed anti-Muslim bigotry.
It's an excuse for thick bigots and it's horrible.

SolomanDaisy · 30/07/2014 07:49

I think banning imports is very scary. Have Tesco banned imports from Russia following their actions in Ukraine?

BarleyBub · 30/07/2014 07:52

Why not just allow people to make their own mind up about whether to buy Israeli produce?

wannabestressfree · 30/07/2014 07:55

That's fine barley as long as they are there to buy!

CoteDAzur · 30/07/2014 07:55

All this "But Israel is being bombarded every day", "they want Israel destroyed", "how can you make peace with people like that?" etc can't hide the fact that this is a David vs Goliath situation. And Goliath is crushing David every day.

What is the opposite of "making peace with those people" anyway? Killing them all?

And what do you expect people who have been treated like animals for generations to do? Lick their master's hand? Hmm

PigletJohn · 30/07/2014 08:04

AnonyMust Wed 30-Jul-14 02:37:31
Tesco are now banning some Israeli imports..

Banning,you say? How do they cause a ban? Is that really true? Where did you see the evidence?

MyFairyKing · 30/07/2014 08:05

runes I do not support the Israeli stance on gaza. Try again next time! Wink I'm talking about anti semitism, not Israel. People on this thread are justifying the attacks on Jews by talking about the Israeli situation. It's abhorrent and pointless because in matter what Israel are doing, Jews in Europe (anywhere really) are not responsible.

This thread reminds me of when a young woman went on a morning breakfast TV programme and bravely spoke about when she was brutally raped walking one street home. The TV presented got crucified because he asked why she did not get a taxi. That woman should be able to walk at night and not get raped, even if there are criminal bastards around and Jews should be able to go about their lives in peace despite their religion. As someone up thread said, victim blaming. It seems to be ok to blame people for something that is not their fault when religion is at hand, yet MN is supportive of other issues. How many threads do we have that decent into muddy waters when a certain chain announces they will not only severe halal meat?? I am not religious, do not practice religion but I am immensely proud of my history and cultural background.

On these threads lately, people have seen me say I'm Jewish and assumed I am supportive of Israel's military action. This presumption is why Jews in Europe are being attacked by ignorant arseholes. I won't silenced because I proudly say I am Jewish nor will I stand for people on here making assumptions about my political stance.

BarleyBub · 30/07/2014 08:06

Yes, Israel is the David. The Goliath is the rest of the Middle-East that hates their guts. 8 million people against 100 million.

How have Isarels been treated for the past few generations? Nearly wiped out only 70 years ago, and bombarded by their neighbours for most of the time since then.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 30/07/2014 08:09

I don't know about very major concern in this country yet- we'll have to wait and see. These few weeks have been a good reminder how much Anti semitism is bubbling away under the surface.

I think the general culture in England is more measured, tolerant and individual-that is we prefer to judge people on a case by case basis- than in some of the rest of Europe.

SolomanDaisy · 30/07/2014 08:20

I do think that the upswing in anti semitism is very similar to the rise of Islamophobia, as some people use international events to justify acting on their own racism. Economic conditions have as much to do with it as anything else. Those people who attacked a rabbi in Gateshead are almost certainly not concerned about the deaths of innocent Muslim children. They'd probably have attacked an Imam just as easily.

I live in the Netherlands and an Israeli friend of mine is really worried about the prejudice she experiences as a result of coverage of the Gaza situation. My Russian friends are not experiencing anything similar following the downing of the plane, despite nearly 200 Dutch people dying. Racism makes a big difference to how people react to international events.

dreamingbohemian · 30/07/2014 08:37

It's an interesting thought, JohnFarley -- I actually came back to say that I think it could be helpful not to think in terms of European anti-Semitism, but to look at how it's appearing differently in different countries, because I don't think it's the same everywhere.

I live in Germany, there are definitely still right-wing groups and incidents here but there is also a very strong determination on the part of the government to clamp down on them, for Germany not to go down that path again. Thousands of Israelis and European/American Jews have actually moved to Berlin in recent years. Many synagogues have permanent police presence outside -- which in a way is sad, that they are necessary, but it also shows that they are serious about deterring any possible attacks.

It feels much different than France, where I also used to live, where I felt there was more open racism against both Jews and Muslims -- and where the National Front did so well in the last election.

The sad thing about these discussions degenerating into Israel-Palestine arguments is that it detracts attention from European governments, who ultimately bear responsibility for violence and hatred in their societies and who are mostly not doing much about it.

I'd be curious what people think the British government should be doing about rising anti-Semitism.

runes · 30/07/2014 08:54

dreaming In my view all hate crimes need to be taken seriously be fully investigated by the police. Obviously attacks on places and people of relogion are hate crimes. fluffy your attempt to accuse me of anti semitism is ridiculous. I am anti bigotry and anti murder pro tolerance and pro peace.

runes · 30/07/2014 08:55

*religion. Smart phone?

CoteDAzur · 30/07/2014 08:57

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crescentmoon · 30/07/2014 09:17

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crescentmoon · 30/07/2014 09:28

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crescentmoon · 30/07/2014 09:32

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ThunderbumsMum · 30/07/2014 09:54

Côte d'Azur, what a disgusting post.

JanineStHubbins · 30/07/2014 09:59

I'm a bit confused. According to posters on this thread:

Jewish people outside Israel have nothing to do with the actions of the Israeli government/IDF

and

Boycotting Israeli produce is a new Kristallnacht against Jewish people

Confused
runes · 30/07/2014 10:03

Good point janine.