To think a whole class except 3 party sends a very pointed message.....

[starterforeight]

I'm trying to get my head round this as it is affecting the way I see someone I know well.

I'd rather not say which part I am currently playing in all of this so as to get a truly non biased opinion.

The children concerned are more than old enough to notice who is and isn't invited to a party and much discussion takes place about who's going, what they're going to wear, what they're going to do.

I don't understand why the bully's feelings should come before the party child's feelings. Why is the bully being upset about being left out more important than the party child being upset that their bully is there?

They don't, Sienna. Not in the real world.

Only on MN

On her last birthday my dd (aged 7) had a whole class party andi invited all bar 1 from her class.
The one girl I excluded made last year a living hell for my dd and she spent a whole year frightened to go to school and made her cry every day and i couldn't give a shiney shit if she was upset.

Quite right madam- I have done the same thing. And I didn't give a toss how the bully felt.

Thought so! I couldn't imagine saving up for a party so dd could have a special birthday and then making the whole crap and pointless by inviting someone who made her life hell or by not inviting some of her friends just so that person didn't have their feelings hurt.

Ah, I did wonder if my question would be ignored since there doesn't seem to be a logical answer for it.

I'm in RL, I invited a bully to my ds' party. Why? Let me count the reasons, because:

1. I was confident I could manage a dc's behaviour so there was never a possibility that ds' party would be spoilt.
2. They are dc's and there could be lots of reasons why they behave a certain way and isolating them is not going to make them behave better.
3. I want ds to be considerate of others' feelings and circumstances. Teaching him that you can leave one dc out is just condoning a different type of bullying.

It's actually only on MN that I've heard adults justify leaving dc's out. No-one I know in RL would be so mean-spirited or lacking in compassion.

Maryz have you ever been bullied ? Have you ever had a child bullied?

Actions do have consequences.

My four year old nephew won't be coming to dd party. I'm not inviting him. The last time he was here, he tried to throw dd rocking horse through the tv and ripped the stair gate of (with a load of paint), at a family BBQ last week he punched the glass his mum was taking a drink out of at that time, knocking it up her face. She then jabbed him in the ribs as he run off laughing. It's all down to the shit she plies him with and extremely bad parenting. He also swears - a lot. Is it his fault? Absolutely not. Do I want him here with a group of toddlers - like hell I do. He scares dd.

He won't be coming.

But Maryz it is quite simple I am responsible for my DS's enjoyment on his birthday. I do not see it as my responsibility to manage an excluded child - that is his parent's responsibility.

Why the chuff would I invite the boy who tried to through a pair of scissors at my DS and was only stopped in time my a member of staff - why, why the heck should I?

The point about exclusion being used as a bullying tactic is not really relevant when it is the bully that is being excluded because of what they have done. If you respond kindly to a bully without consequence then you are condoning their behaviour and minimising the effects of the bullys actions on others.

In secondary school children/teens are isolated for poor behaviour on a temporary daily basis. Sometimes they are given flexible reduced timetables as it is what they and others can cope with. Some students maybe given a one day exclusion/three day exclusion for a serious incident. Sometimes a managed move is constructed to another school to given them a fresh start. These are all strategies used by schools to manage a range of pupil behaviour from low level persistent pests to more violent and non compliant.

Exclusion is not always used as a form of bullying it can be used as a strategy to help the bully and protect others

I refuse to believe that in a class of 20 a child can be close friends with 18 others.
Even further, I refuse to believe that in a class of 30 a child can be close friends with 28 others.
There will always be close friends and a wider group of children they vaguely get on with.

Therefore if you don't want to invite a particular child, just invite e.g. half the class. (As was stated way way way back). It's really not that difficult.

That said, my DD2 hasn't been invited to a party all year. Whole class parties aren't happening any more in juniors. Her 2 closest friends didn't have a party. And she hasn't made the cut for any of the others. However, she hasn't noticed, even if I have. Oh, and she's not a bully, just emotionally a bit behind the others.

Maybe it's an post code thing..inviting a bully to your child's party is clearly some trendy middle class thing.

I think Maryz is posting as someone who has seen a much-loved child hurt in this situation - just as others are, but from the other side. (Sorry Maryz, not a stalker, but I have read some bits of your story in previous posts.)

Bit of a strange logic you have, maryz. We are entitled not to invite the child, but in doing so we are nasty bullies? That makes sense

And it doesn't have anything to do with the ability to run a party properly. If I have to scrimp and save to have a party for dd, I want to watch her and her friends actually enjoy it. I don't particularly want to be on bodyguard duty to prevent the behaviour of one particular child ruining dds day. I don't particularly want anybody else to feel obligated to follow that child around either. It's nothing to do with being bothered to run it properly but more to do with actually wanting to enjoy something that's been an effort to pay for.

A birthday party doesn't have to be a life lesson in considering other people's feelings or a way of trying to make sure a bully behaves positively towards a child.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that we are lumping together all types of "bully". There is a massive difference between a child who is a bit verbally unpleasant occasionally and one who is permanently man-marked by an experienced TA all day at school, but has still managed to injure a few children and terrifies the rest of the class. Should the latter's class never get to have whole class parties because parents can't guarantee the safety of the other children at the party?

Obviously those are extreme examples, but there is a wide variety of "bully".

Any child who is causing as many problems as some of you are alleging is a troubled child, and there is a reason for it

I whole heartedly agree - but I'm not going to using my dd party as an example of how to treat others who can't behave themselfs - reasons or not.

Their bad behaviour is not my problem to fix. I can't fix other peoples kids.

A child's birthday is that child's special day. Its not some "Let's promote inclusion" community event.

Of course it's not about your postcode . I was brought up in a council house in a deprived area. No-one in my class would have held a party and failed to invite one child. Luckily all our parents had a similar approach.

And as for the argument about not wanting to shadow a dc at a party, you never know which dc will end up demanding lots of attention. At ds' party, the 'bully' was no bother at all. Another dc (who would probably have passed your invitation criteria) needed constant reassurance and supervision. If you're hosting a party, then you respond to the guests' needs.

I wouldn't allow my child to be a bully just because it's their birthday and to exclude one child is bullying.

DogCalledRudi exactly well put.

I wouldn't let my child behave in a nasty, spiteful way just because it is their birthday, no.
But then I don't think "promoting inclusion" is a bad thing and would be horrified if my child excluded a child from their party because they are "different".