To think a whole class except 3 party sends a very pointed message.....

[starterforeight]

I'm trying to get my head round this as it is affecting the way I see someone I know well.

I'd rather not say which part I am currently playing in all of this so as to get a truly non biased opinion.

The children concerned are more than old enough to notice who is and isn't invited to a party and much discussion takes place about who's going, what they're going to wear, what they're going to do.

And would you have the courage of your convictions to explain the lack of invite to the parents?

Of course- and I have done in the past. Non-invitations need no explanations.

Do you question "non-invitations" from your friends?

Maryz of course they should be given a chance but not at the expense of causing bother or potentially ruining (if they that bad) a special occasion.

Yes I think some 7 year olds are old enough to relaise just why they have not been invited. I have seen the school exclude children from taking part in an activity following poor behaviour.

I would not do the whole class barr a few thing - as I said this has got me thinking. DS will be 9 so I'm thinking 6 to 8 invitees anyway, 10 max. I will be keeping it all boys too.

Silthy I recently declined an invitation to a parent as DS said he had not been getting on with a child - this is what I said to the parent.

Combust - no I wouldn't outwardly question a non invitation.

I would however in your scenario of not inviting one child in order to send a message, question if that message got through if you didn't explain the reasons behind the exclusion.

But I dont want to send a message - the child I am thinking about his parents are well aware of his lack of inhibition when it comes to hurting others. I jst dont want him to hurt my child - Its an out of school activity, a celebration and its not my job to 'teach' that child anything above my own on an celebratory occasion such as a birthday.

A bit like putting dyslexic children in the corner with a big dunces hat on hardly !!

It's not everyone's human right to be invited to a bloody party. Honestly I think it's the mothers that actually make it worse!

If you read my post properly, I said that banning children with, for example, ADHD from activities and outings was like putting children with dyslexia in a corner with a dunces hat on yes I understand that. But not all 'spirited' children have a SN.

Only on MN have I seen posters say they would invite their child's bully to their child's party. It's insane.

I think the OP is the class teacher or TA too. It can be a very awkward position to be in - you can see something going on that strikes you as unfair or just generally not advisable, but if it's nothing to do with school, it's not technically your business to interfere, and sometimes all you can do is sound off somewhere where it won't get back to anyone at school.

FWIW, I don't think children should have to invite anyone they don't like to their parties (and I don't just mean bullies, but anyone they just don't have much in common with/don't interact with much), but then we never went in for whole class parties. My children were always allowed to invite 6 friends (and there are 2 of them, close in age, so it would be effectively a party of 8) - that never felt too small. Huge parties feel to me like there's an element of competition.

Long thread. Not read it all. Maybe the 3 kids not invited are not friends with birthday child, maybe they are mean to birthday child, maybe they need to learn that sometimes they can't do things

"Only on MN have I seen posters say they would invite their child's bully to their child's party"

For me it's the opposite. My DH is always telling me that I have too much faith in human nature, and sadly when I come on MN I think he's right. Really, a significant minority of people on this thread think it's OK to make a young child feel excluded "because they need to learn" or "that's life" whether they are struggling with their behaviour or not.

I'm really pleased that my DCs school has a clear policy on this issue, so my DC don't need to learn the lesson just yet that parent-sanctioned exclusionary behaviour is acceptable.

Agreed Maryz.

Softly, what is being said is that - rather than exclude 1 or 2 kids for whatever reason, certain posters would just invite a smaller number.

Therefore a bully would not be invited, but neither would a significant proportion of others, meaning the exclusion is not pointed and the birthday child gets a fab party.

And there is no hardship in not having a whole class party.

I would not invite a child who is bullying my child. I would not change the plans I had made/specifically plan my child's party to ensure the bully was not excluded. I wouldn't criticise parents who are happy to organise a party around not excluding the child bullying theirs, if that's what you want to do.

I recognise bullies do exclude others, and if DD was only wanting to exclude one child, I'd want to know why. I wouldn't simply agree to it. If she told me it was because she was being bullied, then of course I would do more than just not invite the bully in the hope they got the message (clearly they won't)- I'd speak to the school and the parents in an attempt to tackle the bullying. I might inform the parent (if I was able to contact them) why their child was not invited- in the hope they would be able to explain to their child that their behaviour had caused this.

As it happens, I don't think I could be bothered with a party of 25+. Not all "whole class parties" involve that many though- in my DDs class there are only 10 children (including her) although there is more than one class in each year (i.e. 2 classes, one of 10 and one of 11). It is not unusual to have whole class parties, or all the girls/boys from both classes. Again rarely more than 10 in total. Not inviting a bully + several others could get quite awkward and mean her not inviting children she does like and play with and/or having a very small party- all in order to accommodate a bully.

As I said before, my friends DD (the older sister of DDs friend) who goes to same school as DD, was bullied by one girl- who was also quite unpleasant to several other children. She had a reputation for being 'difficult" and causing upset at parties, in addition to being a bully. On one occasion she slapped friend's DD at her own party, parents were told and did nothing about it. Following several incidents like this, this girl was subsequently not invited to many parties. Not to "send a pointed message" but because the children didn't like her and the parents were fed up of her behaviour. I don't think many people restricted the numbers to avoid this girl getting upset- again small class sizes would have meant excluding children who the others liked and played with or having only 1 or 2 friends so as not to exclude only the bully +1 or 2 others (which seems unfair on these children).

But why would I force my DS to be friednly and welcomming to a person who has hurt him or any of the other kids he doesnt play with who I wont be inviting.

What message would i be teaching my DS - take the scissors on the chin son, it's ok to be friends with this boy, we are inviting him to your party.

I am not responsible for correcting this or any bullies behaviour. I am responsible for giving my DS a fun Bday celebration. - Other instances of being inclusive re this partcular boy i have referred to in my examples I can suport DS but ultimately that boys behaviour is the responsibility of his teacher and his parents (who have failed to set boundaries in any shape or form and I feel very sorry for him as he is now having to quickly learn a whole heap of rights and wrongs very quickly)

If DS was being bullied in school I hope I would be doing more to help than simply "you're not coming to my birthday party, so ner".

I would agree with the whole class, significant group (eg boys/girls) or less than half the class.

I know teachers who would enforce this rule ie "you seem to have left out Johnny, make sure you bring his invite tomorrow".

I cannot imagine a situation whereby my DS was being bullied badly enough for me to want to exclude a child, and all I was worrying about was some silly whole class party.

Hi first timer here.
3 children not invited and Faith School mentioned with families involved out with school.
Bullying seems to be the issue focussed on but we've been told this is not the problem.
Could it be that the 3 children are of a different religion or ethnic origin and are therefore seen by the inviting parent as not acceptable.
This would obviously BVU but would no parent ever do this?

I assume the birthday child doesn't like those 3 who were excluded. It ain't rocket science.

Have you asked the parents of the Birthday Child why these children have been excluded OP? Neither you or anyone on this forum knows.

Maybe there is a good reason for it, but you won't know unless you ask. So on that basis YABU OP.

I know teachers who would enforce this rule ie "you seem to have left out Johnny, make sure you bring his invite tomorrow".

I was a teacher and I would certainly not do this. The parents would probably (quite rightly) tell me to piss off.

I don't see what it has to do with the teacher anyway. It is a private party, out of school hours and nothing to do with the school. our primary does not get involved with invitations to birthday parties. they won't distribute invites or put them into school bags. it is up to the parents to distribute them. I wholly agree with this policy.

Oh look there are allsorts of people I care not to socialise with because of one reason or another and I dont see it as my civic duty to invite them and nor do i see it as my duty to invite kids who are nasty in whatever way to my DS uite simply because he does not like them and thats good enough for me. If a chidl is upset by this then that is their parents responsibility to manage that situation. Nothing to do with the school

If a bully is left out of an event outside of school then so be it. I would not advocate this approach in school where the teacher - an objective professional is able to use (hopefully) a variety of strategies to include the bully in a positive way to break a cycle of negative behaviour and build bridges.

I am very pleased my DS is not in the same class as this particular boy this year - at my request.