to be angry at the fact women MUST NOT BE FAT

[MagicMojito]

I'm just so pissed off with the double standards!

I went into primark and there is a whole wall dedicated to "hide your fat" type underware
and I dont just mean Spanx and the like, there were corset type tops, underware leggings to stop the wobble as you walk, a "no more back fat" vest - I shit you not, that's what it said on the label!! Rows and rows of the same type of fat hiding underware in all different styles and colours.

In comparison the men's underware department consisted of three rails, boxer shorts, briefs, socks and vests . Its the same in most shops now (although I was pretty shocked and impressed with such a vast range of products of this style)

In summer all over the tv/magazines its advertising how to get a great bikini body, fab abs, summer holiday slim down etc.

Winter its the little black dress diet for the office Xmas party!! -AIMED ONLY AT WOMEN

Aibu to just think FUCK OFF ALREADY?!
I realise this is nothing new BTW. I just had a realisation that things are only gonna get worse and I feel sad that this is the message that my dds are going to get brought up around

I'm saying that the messages surrounding the magic pants are the fat shaming. It's okay that they are on sale for people who want them. It's the fact that we have it drummed into our heads that we NEED them if we are fat or have lumpy bits. That's where the fat shaming comes in. It spreads out into society. If you choose not to wear the magic pants, you're seen as not caring about your appearance etc etc when really, you just don't want to wear those particular things. It's so drummed into people.

I agree completely about tumblr though. It is frightening that there are young teenagers giving up on ever losing weight or having a healthier body. I find it almost cultish the way some of the older women on there are manipulating young girls in order to feel better about themselves. There's the good message that it's good to love yourself at any size but then there's the darker side basically saying let's stay fat together, fuck this people, it's just hate we are healthy etc etc. And that's not even touching on the feeder community on there that is involving teenagers.

Fuck thin people*

Yeah I understand what you mean now

Exactly sienna, I didn't think about the feeder point. It's almost fetishising obesity. I see a lot of the photos reblogged and wonder if there's any men getting off on these young girls posting photos of their naked or nearly naked bodies.

I know there are feeders out there I watched a documentary about it 12 years ago.

When a man prefers a slimmer woman its not called a fetish though is it!

Objectification of women on websites or in the street or workplace etc should NOT be happening whatever size we are.

YANBU but that's the way the cookie crumbles... (if you'll pardon the pun)

Darkest, if a man choses to feed or deny a woman food to either extreme to make her body the object of his sexual gratification I would say they are both fetishes yes.

Really Morphine. Because I would call that a form of domestic abuse and I know im not the only one with that opinion. Its classed as coercive control.

Of course it's domestic abuse, in aid to feed the fetish.

There's a few interesting documentaries on feeders.

I watched one where the man obviously loved how much she depended on him. When she started losing weight she really blossomed, she got this new attitude and you could tell he was unhappy and resented it. I was so happy for her.

A feeder doesn't just fetishise an obese person. They take pleasure in helping them gain weight, "force" feeding them and watching them increase in size. They get sexual gratification from it. There are feedees who are willing participants who also get sexual gratification from it. Of course, like any fetish, there will be opportunities for abuse but, like any fetish, there will also be voluntary participants who enjoy it.

Then on the other hand there are feedees who are victims of society. I spoke to someone on tumblr a while back who was feeding herself up for a host of feeders who followed her blog. She was single and didn't have a real life feeder. It was quite sad really because it felt like she did it because she felt it was the only way she could find male attention and have men worshipping at her feet. She stopped replying when I asked her where they would be when she was immobilised and disabled by her size.

And there are teenagers buying into that idea. That if they can't lose weight, why not gain it and get attention that way. It's really sad.

BraveP, ah, very like me. I genuinely don't look in a mirror. There will be a mirror there when I clean my teeth in the morning but I would never look in one the rest of the day. I just live a life. I can't see the point in looking in mirror. It must be really boring. I think it's a fascinating issue. I've often thought one reason unlike most women I like how I look and am happy is because I don't look in mirrors, don't read women's magazines (I like the FT) have a really interesting legal career and lots of children - a full life in which looks are only about 1% of what I am and what makes me and whereby the older you get the more experienced, the happier, the higher your income the more you move to the peak of your career rather than for some women their only currency - they sexuality and ability to keep a man who keeps them, diminishes with age. We need to change that mind set.

Also genuine question if you squash your tummy into some kind of control pants surely the fat just moves around so it's pushed up higher? I don't see how they can work and surely they hurt? They sound awful things. I hope most mumsnetters go nowhere near them.

I went searching for decent priced, flattering swimwear that fits above a C cup in M&S the other day. I tried on some lovely swimming costumes, but most of them had 'hidden panels' to pull you in and loads of ruching to hide apparently unsightly things such as stomachs. It was all totally uneccessary.

Obviously it is not healthy to be very overweight, but that's not really the point the OP is making.

Those of you who are saying 'YABU. People need to stop being so fat!' - do you really think that Spanx etc are mostly aimed at the clinically obese? No - they are mostly aimed at normal to slightly (but not necessarily unhealthily) overweight women who are shamed into thinking they have to try and look a particular shape.

I am not 'shamed' into thinking I need to look a particular shape. I am not overweight (although 8 months pregnant atm so might be when the baby is born) but I choose to wear spanx as a size 10 in certain clothes as I like the way it makes me look. No different in my eyes to hair dye or make up. I am able to make an informed choice about what makes me feel good.

Everyone seems to forget there is a whole other very large (pun not intended) group out there of gorgeous sexy women that are Not Fat, they are simply not skinny, these are the normal healthy pleasantly plump women that have nothing to be ashamed of and do not need to loose weight, but they are being demonized, conned and bullied into loosing non existent extra pounds, because apparently everyone is supposed to be a size 6 with no flesh on their bones at all, stick your "fat squashing " rubbish where the sun don't shine I am unashamedly awesomely NOT Skinny and loving myself because of it.

I read this thread because DW has always worried about her weight. There is no evidence she has ever been overweight. Her worries about her weight have always puzzled me. In the last few years she has taken strenuous exercise daily, and - for the first time in our married life - weighed less than me. Which brings me to my next point.

There's no doubt that fat men don't get sneered at like fat women. However, that isn't quite the correct comparison. The social equivalent of fat women are not fat men, but small men - or to put it unkindly, small scrawny men. You get used to being, quite literally, overlooked, by both men and women but, more importantly, overlooked metaphorically wrt jobs, pay rises, social situations, dating and so on. You have the choice either to appear self-effacing (due to your physical lack of stature) or, alternatively, develop Small Man Syndrome and join the ranks of Stalin, Napolean and others. At school you get kicked around like a tin can or ignored, and you take a bulliable personality into adulthood.

This is the reason why young men increasingly want to put on muscle. Not to lose fat, but to be bigger, and increase their social standing.

There are no clothes to solve this problem except, I suppose, a sort of fat-suit. On the other hand, who remembers the 80s and shoulderpadding?

There are some dubious benefits. I got to travel half-fare on the train for a few years more than I was entitled to. My party piece is that I can squeeze through small spaces like a cockroach. Once I reached adulthood I was less likely to get beaten up because, being small, there was no glory in picking a fight with me.

I don't want to suggest that I get treated as badly as overweight women. I have no idea if I do or not. On the whole, the way I get treated because of my size is something I prefer not to think about, and if I mention it in the company of other men, I do so as a joke. But when I do, I realise that it is a bit shit being small, actually. Sometimes I feel like a complete non-person. OK, I've gone on far too long and will stop now.

That's a great insightful post Toad. What shorter men have to put up with hadn't really occurred to me.

There was a short lad at school whose party pieces were squeezing into a school locker (one of the smaller lockers) and a PUMA sports bag.

The other lads bet their dinner money that he couldn't.
Several boys in my class went hungry that day.

Yes, there's an over-focus on women and they way the look which men aren't subjected to (or anywhere near to the same extent)

But the fat covering garments are just of part of the whole 'women are denied by their looks' thing- clothes, cosmetics, shoes, cosmetic surgery etc etc and this happens, to varying extents everywhere

But in the UK, more people are fat, much fatter, than in other (also developed, westernised) countries. So body shaping stuff is just a logical extension of the market, as more people feel the need to buy it, and will buy it.

I live in another European country, and whilst there are lots of different body shapes, of course, 'fatness' isn't really common. There's many of the same shops and brands here, but I would be pushed to find this stuff.

There's all the other shit of course, women should look young, women look better in 'pretty outfits' and so on, but being fat isn't the WORST thing, because it's not so much of an issue, so it isn't focused upon.

I think it's because women are generally more self-conscious and harder on themselves... The media doesn't help... Women are constantly bombarded with images of the 'ideal' way they should look (usually images of women who have been airbrushed to within an inch of their lives!) and the press is full of articles on female celebrities' weight battles that scrutinize and critique every inch of said celebrities' bodies! Then look at the ads on TV... How many are targeted at women and female insecurity (makeup, fashion, cosmetic surgery, hair products, false tan, body moisturisers, waxing products etc?! Men, on the other hand, get a shaving ad here and there and deodorant ads. Basically, the advertisers realise that a lot of women are insecure about how they look and play into that to sell their wares... They don't waste too much time on men...they realise a lot of them (with the exception of fashion driven young men) don't really give a shit and are happy to let it all hang out... How many men have you overheard saying, 'I really need to go on a diet, lose weight etc...don't want to look a state on the beach on holiday?'... Now think about how many women you've heard say that...
That's my little synopsis...

Excellent post, Toad... I hadn't considered that. You make great points.

Many women in the 50s and 60s wore roll on girdles, then they disappeared for many years until they were reinvented at spanx.
Trinny and Susannah were always pushing them.

Toad: yes, I agree. So many people think tall children and superior to small children and this carries through to adulthood.

How many parents do we all know who boast that their DC are in the top 10 percentile for height?

Paxtecum, Toad, good points.

I have always had male as well as female friends (and grew up with 3 brothers) and IME men worry just as much about their appearance as women.

Men worry about (lack of) height, baldness ( most men really hate going bald) and scrawniness/being weedy.

You can't "fix" those things with clothing or make up though.

Yes my DM squeezed herself into a girdle in the early 70's.

Even as a seven year old it looked hot and oppressive, I swore then I'd never wear such a thing, and as a wobbly size 16 46 yearold, you won't find any spandex in my draws.

Just because a lot of people buy into a thought / branch doesn't make it any more 'right'. I think the issue was one thing, that this branch discusses, but I actually think the issues have moved on but the discussions and perspectives haven't. To me they are staid. Old. Do not encompass the ways life has changed, technology has altered us. I think it's more complex not less.

And I'm no less a feminist than you are. I just thought the op was bull.

Yes, height in men seems to matter to many people. A survey done at sperm banks found women was "tall" even more than high IQ which amazed me. He could be as thick as a plank or not earn much or be awful but if he were tall all was forgiven. Yes the analogy is not quite right because being short does not make you ill and die and not be around for your children whereas being fat does often have that effect. There are very few obese people over 80. To be blunt, they have died.

What troubles me is women who look perfectly okay worrying about how they look. It seems vain. We seem to have lost the sin of vanity. It used to be the British ethos that pretty did ad pretty does, that pride goes before a fall and all those old sayings and it was a bit non U, common etc to wear lots of or even any make up. Good right moral people just get on with helping others, doing their work and caring for those whom they love. We seem to have utterly lost that amongst many groups of people in the UK and instead it is all about me me me and how she or he looks in mirrors. That will never make people happy in any kind of sustainable way.