to be angry at the fact women MUST NOT BE FAT

[MagicMojito]

I'm just so pissed off with the double standards!

I went into primark and there is a whole wall dedicated to "hide your fat" type underware
and I dont just mean Spanx and the like, there were corset type tops, underware leggings to stop the wobble as you walk, a "no more back fat" vest - I shit you not, that's what it said on the label!! Rows and rows of the same type of fat hiding underware in all different styles and colours.

In comparison the men's underware department consisted of three rails, boxer shorts, briefs, socks and vests . Its the same in most shops now (although I was pretty shocked and impressed with such a vast range of products of this style)

In summer all over the tv/magazines its advertising how to get a great bikini body, fab abs, summer holiday slim down etc.

Winter its the little black dress diet for the office Xmas party!! -AIMED ONLY AT WOMEN

Aibu to just think FUCK OFF ALREADY?!
I realise this is nothing new BTW. I just had a realisation that things are only gonna get worse and I feel sad that this is the message that my dds are going to get brought up around

Men are allowed not to care!

Fat is indeed a feminst issue. However, separate issue that fat is unhealty in anyone, whichever gender. But yes, presure on women to look a certain consumer-friendly way is wrong.

I would be happy to date a fat man. Not enormous but certainly chunky.

Btw, I think a lot of men do care - especially the young ones. I did a self -esteem course for Yr 10 boys when I was a teacher (it was all boys, not ones with problems) and I was really shocked that they ALL expressed such a low self-esteem regarding their looks/bodies/weight/lack of being 'pumped'. Men/boys don't express these emotions as readily as girls but they are certainly there. Think about how many men you have known who have privately expressed anxiety about their penis size. I am damn sure that they would buy surgery/enhancing underwear if they could.

If we stopped buying all this crap then the shops would stop selling it.

men have a limited selection because that's all men need- if men don't want to look fat they lose weight- they don't buy all this crap.

sleepwhenidle - if change - change of condition - appearance - status - is not driven by discontent what would you suggest drives it? most people do in fact not look their best as much as possible. There is a huge amount of blending in - conforming and camouflaging going on.
No fashion trend suits the number of people who buy it. No fashionable body shape is achievable except by the tiniest minority.
Nor do I believe that we have all bought in to one template of attractiveness, It is a convenient stereotype but it is statistically very far from the truth and somewhat patronising. There is - as you clearly say, a divide between physical attractiveness and self esteem. Does this divide not also therefore indicate that increasing physical attractiveness - based on a current value of attractiveness- will not lead to higher self esteem and as good self esteem really is a better basis for happiness.
There has been a trend recently to try to work with out bodies more the way we have evolved to eating, sleeping excercie etc..Mirrors are a relatively recent phenomenon in human history - it is interesting to speculate on how peoples self perception would change if their "worth" was valued by that which was reflected back at them by others .

Im not American.
I also like to say "grab a Starbucks" and "Let's do coffee''

Agreed that is being unreasonable

I think this OP is nonsense.

Women are allowed to be exactly as fat as they like, and to wear exactly what they want.

Looking around you will see women who are as big as they like, wearing exactly what they want.

Primark are a business, selling clothes people want. There is no obligation to go near the shop, let alone go in. Men might feel hard done by as the men's dpt is always smaller and not as well supplied as the women's dpt.

I don't get the outrage at all. If women would not buy (want) this sort of underwear, it would not exist. There are fat wimen out there who want to hide their back fat, and why should they not be allowed? It is their choice.

re attractiveness - of course it is a social construct. Nowadays poor people are the fattest so fat people being gross. Skinniness is easier to achieve if you are a Wag etc so it becomes desirable (linked to status and wealth). In ye olden days being a plump lady meant you had money to sit on your bum and live on yummy food so it was a desirable look. Apparently the beauty ideal in Victorian times was to be 5'1 and size 16. I am exactly this now. Therefore I am beautiful but merely living in the wrong era :)

I think men are getting just as obsessed , i found it weird where i work that a lot of the 45+ men were at the gym trying to get the 6pack of the guy on the front of mens health, and doing weird all proten diets to boot.

There must be demand for the fat clothing or it would soon be whipped out of production. And we are getting fatter... i regularly see very overweight children stuffing themselves mid day/not at meal times. The already hugely obese mother at West Ham tube station who gives her little one breakfast of Doritos everyday makes me . Growing up in the 70's, fat children were uncommon, now they are everywhere. We are more image obsessed, but i have been slim and been fat - and i feel better about myself and healthier slim.

Interesting post darkness.

I live in the country and don't come across shop windows reflecting my image often. After I get dressed and brush my teeth I don't look into the mirror until it is time to brush my teeth again. I live in a community where people are appreciated for volunteering, helping out, being friendly.

Most clothes I wear are for confort and practicality.

My self esteem is higher than most of my London friends who are forev er on diets, worry about wearing the wrong clothes etc.

Country living and no mirrors is the way to go!maybe?

I think you're mistaken, because I don't think it's about fat. It's about appearance. Men don't typically wear make up. Men don't typically wear nail varnish. Men don't typically depilate their underarms, legs or pubic regions. Men don't typically wear thongs. Men don't typically wear 5 inch heels. Men don't typically wear tight skirts that you can't walk properly in. Disclaimer: I'm sure some men do all of these things.

Women are allowed to be exactly as fat as they like, and to wear exactly what they want.

They are allowed to be as fat as they like and wear what they want but wouldn't it be brilliant to be able to do it without all the negativity that comes with it? I can be fat and I can wear what I like but in exchange for that, because of the obsession with weight, I have to deal with comments from all and sundry because being fat means people apparently have the right to comment on my body. The problem with all this underwear and the constant reminder that if you are fat you are nothing, isn't just that it affects your own opinion on fat. It affects the people around you and they treat you differently as a result.

Women can't be as fat as they like or wear what they want without accepting the fact that it opens them up to potential abuse and negativity everywhere they go. And to me, that means women can't be as fat as they like or wear what they want.

YY Sienna that's exactly it.

I hate this debate. I'm sick of hearing about 'fat shaming'. If being fat didn't come with negativity then no-one would want to lose weight. We'd all eat what we like, let ourselves go, become even more unhealthy as a nation.

It's gotten to the point where people are complaining about doctors mentioning their weight. If a health professional can't discuss it then who can.

There's a massive difference between being advised to lose weight for health reasons and fat shaming. Does this mean you condone strangers coming up to fat people and telling them to "lose weight, you fat fuck" and other delights?

No actually I don't, that's a massive jump. But fat-shaming seems to encompass every negative comment they receive now. I've seen people on here complain about it too.

I'm not saying people should be nasty to fat people AT ALL, I've been large myself and it's horrible. But embarrassment is a massive factor in people choosing to lose weight.

Some people are trying to fight to make obesity seem natural and the norm. Wanting overweight models, mannequins, wanting obese sizing for things readily available. Insisting that obesity is beautiful.

It's ridiculous. I know I'm being harsh, but it's gotten to the point of ridiculousness.

There's a massive difference between being advised to lose weight for health reasons and fat shaming.

Exactly.

Morphine, of course we shouldn't all let ourselves go. There's a massive gulf between totally letting yourself go, and having constant pressure from all sides to 'improve' the way you look. The pressure on young girls these days is immense, and I wish they could just grow up to enjoy their bodies for what those bodies can do, rather than what they look like.

Okay, crossed over with your last post.

I agree with you that trying to normalize obesity isn't good or healthy. I just didn't think that's what the thread is really about.

I made that jump from the negativity, the other side is people literally trying to force it into being something positive.

The thing is, negative comments are fat shaming if they are unsolicited. What other reason are they being said if not to shame? No one has the right to comment on my weight unsolicited unless they are me or a health care professional.

But you mentioned that selling 'fat hiding' clothes makes fat people feel bad, thus fat shaming, so what should be done about that if anything?

There's a huge online movement now of women, strong women I may add, getting together and glorifying being obese. Whilst I'm actually loving the fact they love themselves and are confident in their own bodies, it scares the shit out of me that so many girls and women are subscribing to this bullshit that you can be whatever size you want and it's all fine. A lot of them actively dismiss being unhealthy because they 'feel' fine. Good for them for being okay with it, but ignoring the fact and helping others ignore that it's so dangerous is wrong and insidious. Especially when it's teen girls on Tumblr who can see this sort of stuff.

I'll post sources and links if anyone is interested in the sorts of things I'm talking about later.

To answer the OP things like spanx etc wouldn't sell well if targeted towards men. When men decide their fat is a problem they lose weight not try to hide it, I imagine that their peers would take the piss out of them if they started trying to hide their fat.

Morphine I hope you would be just as vocal about pro anorexia websites.

Of course Darkest, ana and mia sites are just as bad.