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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

353 replies

HopeYoureHappy · 23/07/2014 13:46

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

OP posts:

Pyjamaramadrama · 24/07/2014 08:17

It does happen. Not saying for a second anything like that's going on here. But I don't like that people have to put their children's lives in the hands of CAFCASS and judges. In my experience judges will almost always rule in favour of fortnightly contact.

I appreciate that people can't always get along, not suggesting they all sit round for Christmas dinner. But it really isn't about mum or dads rights to their children but the children's right to know both parents. I think forcing children to spend the night in a different home is not the same as say forcing them to tidy their room or forcing them to go to school.

I'd like to think that if I was the father here and the mother was being obstructive rather than accept defeat I'd try to come at things from a different angle.

Aeroflotgirl · 24/07/2014 08:22

Cafcass have been useless, have been pressing for more contact despite ex not wanting it, and residency reversal despite not knowing the child and not putting him first. Tgey care more for ex than the child. Every week she has to deliver him to contact knowing he will be sexually and emotionally abused. I know this is done to prevent alienating mothers, but there are some where it is not the case. If ex was normal and and no abuse my friend would be very happy for contact

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 08:26

I'm always sceptical when it's the stepmum posting about the evil ex wife and the down beaten dad who's just desperate to see his kids. Yet it's never him posting.

Because maybe she has offered too, maybe he feels as if he wouldn't be heard without getting flamed... Let's face it according to some all NRPs are bad and RPs never do anything wrong.

Aeroflotgirl · 24/07/2014 08:26

In this case of my friend contact with the father is not in the best interests of the child, but in a normal situation without synch issues, it is!

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 08:30

I hope that your DP can get the order reinforced, OP. It does seem a shame that your DP's ex appears to be emotionally manipulating his DC into being torn between doing their contact visit or coming to you.

Why does she hate your DP so much, did he have an affair and leave her? Are you the OW?

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 08:40

I'd like to think that if I was the father here and the mother was being obstructive rather than accept defeat I'd try to come at things from a different angle.

I know what you are saying but for some it can be severely debilitating mentally. You get to the end if your tether and don't allways know which way to turn.

In my DPs case he was actually advised to 'accept defeat' for a bit because despite numerous court cases, being told that she was a breathe away from being held in contempt of court by a judge, his ex still was blocking contact (and in this case it was deliberate).

The marriage breakdown was not his 'fault' (she had affairs), but she was 'angry' after many cries from her of if you don't like it then leave, the final time he actually did. she has admitted this.

Cue years and years of toing and frowing to court, court order after court order, breached court orders etc and her basically laughing at the judicial system aswell as her over involving the children in the whole divorce/contact process etc the final straw finally came when it was said that everyone would be better off if he was dead.

By this point he was so ground down that he thought she was right. He suffered terrible stress and anxiety due to the whole process that it was severely affecting his health, he attempted suicide. It was a serious attempt and it was only because his brother turned up at his home unexpected that he survived.

Quejica · 24/07/2014 09:01

OP is your DH representing himself.

If so get him to prepare a Position Statement for the Judge. A couple of sides of A4, typed, double spaced and numbered paragraphs.

Try to keep the contents civil and neutral but set out what has been happening and what he would like to ensure.

Hand it in at court at least an hour before your hearing.

WakeyCakey45 · 24/07/2014 09:48

Some fathers are actually ordered to "accept defeat" by the courts, despite the acknowledgement by the judge that the court system has let the child down:

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed116553

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 10:09

I'm always sceptical when it's the stepmum posting about the evil ex wife and the down beaten dad who's just desperate to see his kids. Yet it's never him posting.
Really, Pyjamaramadrama? How often do you post about your family issues on MN? And how often does your DH/DP?

How often do most posters' male DPs?

My DH has never posted on MN, although he reads things I show him and we discuss threads I read or post on. That is true with regards to all subjects - stepparenting, teenagers, child development, schools, you name it. He may sometimes even suggest "why don't you see what mumsnet says". I don't think he is unusual in this regard.

1.) MN is still largely a place of women.
2.) Internet forums about family issues, on the whole, are still largely the domain of women.
3.) My DH has a very different approach to problem-solving and is far less likely than me to engage in the style of research/opinion canvassing/personal testimony model offered by MN forums. There is a tremendous body of research out there about how and why men and women have different styles of communication and problem-solving; suffice it to say that the difference between men and women in this regard is a documented one, whether we like it or not.
4.) My DH and I have a 'division of duties' within our family. It's not always along traditional gender lines, but in this case, I suppose it it - when it comes to family issues, I take the greater role in 'research' - that doesn't mean he's uninvolved or that we don't then discuss, and ultimately he may be the one to make a decision (or I may be, or we may decide together!) - but just as he generally is the one to make GP appointments, in our marriage, I am the one who mumsnets. (Of course, I am also a professional researcher, so maybe I just enjoy it more than he does!)

But ultimately - why should the OP not be posting? She has a legitimate interest in the outcome.
1.) She is the mother of the siblings of the children in question (Your point that they are unmarried is a bit irrelevant next to that, frankly). This issue profoundly and directly affects her children's well-being.
2.) Her DP and his children are her family. This issue profoundly and directly affects her family.
3.) She has a family issue and would like advice on her own behalf as well as that of her DP. This issue affects her personally.

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 10:10

Why does she hate your DP so much, did he have an affair and leave her? Are you the OW?

OH MY GOD.

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 10:13

No, not OMG. I am not about to berate the OP, whatever - it would just be helpful to understand why the ex is so obstructive, and this could be one reason.

Frogisatwat · 24/07/2014 10:15

Brdgrl. Rules of mumsnet where stepmother are concerned.
Stepmum is ALWAYS the ow. Even if she met her partner 6 years post divorce.
birth mum is ALWAYS the wrong party. Even if she was conducting affairs with the entire male population of her neighbourhood. It was the mans fault for not doing enough housework.

Frogisatwat · 24/07/2014 10:16

Wrong - wronged

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 10:21

sorry, I shouldn't have asked. I was merely trying to fill out the background as to why the ex was being obstructive, not trying to paint the OP in any bad light.

OP, sorry I asked - please don't bother replying.

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 10:23

Thanks for that link wakey I'll get DP to have a look.

Pyjamaramadrama · 24/07/2014 10:24

The point I made is that the op doesn't even live with her dp, yes they have twins on the way now. If a mum came on stating that her boyfriend who she does not live with was trying to get involved with contact issues between her children and ex I think she'd be slated.

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 10:30

Where are you getting the info that she doesn't live with her DP?
It doesn't sound as though they live apart, she says her DD looks forward to when the DP's DC are visiting and is disappointed when they don't come, everything the OP says suggests that she is in the house where the DP's DC come to stay - so where does it say they live apart?

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 10:38

The OP and her partner have been together for five years, the children of both the OP and her DP have a relationship with the two parents and with one another, and the OP is currently pregnant with her DP's children. Only an ass would slate her for thinking that these people constitute her family.

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 10:45

Ah, I think you are right there, Thumbwitch, I can't see where the OP says that they don't live together. That was claimed by another poster early in the thread and seems to have been accepted as true even if it is not.

In fact in her OP it says "They are always happy here"
and
We had the DSC the majority of the time for the first three years of our relationship
and she refers to her DD as the resident child in the home.
So yeah, I think there has been a misunderstanding anyway of the OP's circumstances.

Pyjamaramadrama · 24/07/2014 10:48

The op started another thread yesterday where she said that they don't live together.

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 10:57

In that case, I'll just repeat myself.
The OP and her partner have been together for five years, the children of both the OP and her DP have a relationship with the two parents and with one another, and the OP is currently pregnant with her DP's children. Only an ass would slate her for thinking that these people constitute her family.

My DH and I didn't live together until our DD was six months old. He was still her dad, his children were still her siblings, and we were still a family.

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 10:59

The op started another thread yesterday where she said that they don't live together.

Because if childcare issues by the looks of it. They are engaged and planning on getting married. Who knows... Maybe they aren't living together because ex has kicked off about that too...

Give the OP a break! All this talk about butting out and the children not being siblings, not being as important as they aren't married/living together is just plain spiteful!

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 11:06

So she did. But they are engaged, they are planning on moving in together, getting married, about to have twins together, the OP's DD sees the OP's DP as her father figure - doesn't sound all that casual really, does it, nor does it merit "downgrading" the OP to the status of "girlfriend".

bibliomania · 24/07/2014 11:26

Wakey, that's a fascinating link, and a clear example of a case where the RP's hostility to contact (for no good reason) has been harmful. But the judge didn't order the father to give up - the outcome was that the judge ordered a rehearing.

Ketchuphidestheburntbits · 24/07/2014 11:32

Hope, in answer to your original question YANBU. Your DP (with your help) should keep a written diary with details of each time contact has been cancelled with all the reasons given. That way he can show the evidence to the court next month and hopefully his ex will be told she has to keep to the contact order.

I've been shocked at some of the earlier posters in this thread who suggest that your DSC don't need to see their father if they choose not to. Those children are so lucky to have you in their lives as you clearly care about them deeply.

Good luck with your twins!

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