to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

[HopeYoureHappy]

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

I am seriously gobsmacked by this thread. I can't believe there are mothers who don't think it is important that children have a relationship with their (living) fathers. I think less of MN tonight. Un-fucking-believable. And remember I am a lone parent whose ex left for another woman. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I think this thread is a fairly true representation of society as a whole - this is a very contentious issue that even professionals and experts in the field of child psychology and family separation disagree strongly, and publicly, about.
There are some very outspoken campaigners and organisations on both sides of this debate who express their views regularly in social and conventional media.

I think inconsistent parenting harms children, but if there's no safety issues with the NRP they should have just as much of a right to see their children as the RP. Contact is more for the children than anything else.

I think it's wrong for step parents and the NRP to withdraw contact from a child in favour to their 'new' family though. Having seen this happen, I can honestly say it's one of the nastiest things they can do.

"In the same breath I bet a lot of these people would be quick to call the dad a deadbeat because he doesn't see his children, because the mum doesn't "bully them in to seeing their dad" so they don't go to their dad's."

Surely this is the other side of the coin as a deadbeat dad blaming the mother for not letting him see his children, when the truth is that he can't be arsed?

A relationship with their dad is important, and if there's a contact order in place then they should stick to it. The children are not very old - only 7 and 9 - so should be forging a close relationship with Dad. That's why the contact order exists.

However right you may be, you would probably do well to let your DP fight this one on his own. They're his kids and it's his call.

I'm not sure what the answer to your OP is, but I do think you have the right to an opinion. Ultimately you'll have to let your OH and his ex sort it out though. On Mumsnet, step parents have all the responsibility and none of the authority.

OP I am not a step-mother and am no fan of the step-mother board on here.

However, I think you are getting a very hard time, in fact some people have been downright horrible on here. Slicedanddiced is right.

I think it is odd that when the general MN consensus is that being married is no emotionally different to being in a long term committed relationship, e.g mortgage + kids, you not being married to your partner somehow means his children are none of your business.

It does sound like the mum is being obstructive. This is a great shame for the children involved. I am not sure that enforcing contact would be the way ahead though.

All I will say is that children are not children forever and they will usually find out the truth of things when they grow up.

I think enforcing contact is the way ahead because the DSC are always happy here, they rarely mention their mum, always ask to stay more and never ask to stay less or leave early. If they were furious and begrudging about coming it would be different, but they aren't. They're understandably torn because mummy has been saying for days how daddy makes her so sad by taking them away to his new family, the one he picked over her completely untrue and extremelymmanipulative. On the odd occasion I've been in the car when DP collects them, she's hugging and kissing and teary and making them promise to phone her - this is if contact if only for one day or night

My DD wasn't keen on contact with her father after we separated. I could've played this exact same game that DSC mum is playing and frustrated contact easily, or I could've remained breezy (I'm sure you'll have a lovely time, can't wait to hear all about it when you get back) and made it easy for DD to have a relationship with us both. I chose to do the latter, because that's what best for her. The need and opportunity for a relationship with both parents should be matter of fact, not open to negotiation. What do those who think their mum is rightssuggest we do? Out-theme park her so they'll be willing to see us?

I completely agree that resident children are overlookedin these ssituations. My DD is always nervous about what she should and shouldn't say, in case DSC tell their mum about a planned trip and she stops it. She looks forward to them coming, then is confused and upset if they don't - particularly as she doesn't get a choice about seeing her father which has meant her missing out on parties etc. We can never book or plan something and know for sure that DSC willbe there. We ccannot waste endless money on paying for holidays they don't arrive for, yet are excluding them if we don't book them a place. Definitely can't win.

I hope the judge is hard on their mum.

Enforcing contact if DSDs are 9&7 is just about possible, but what happens when they are 13&11 and both as tall as Mum.

In the end direct negotiations with the children are the only thing that's going to work. They have a right to a social life that isn't determined by tbeir parents getting divorced.

By enforcing contact, I mean their mum being forced to stick to the order. The DSC do not need to be forced to come, because they want to. However, conveniently they're not home to see their father arrive to collect them on court agreed dates.

Enforcing contact if DSDs are 9&7 is just about possible, but what happens when they are 13&11 and both as tall as Mum.
I have a 6'1" teenage stepson, so I do sort of take your point - but surely you have to be able to enforce things with your 13 and 11 year-olds all the time? I can't physically compel DSS to do things, but I can't just give up either; it's always about finding those other ways to compel and enforce.
I'm genuinely perplexed by the idea (not meaning to aim this at you here, elephants, speaking more broadly about something I have seen on this thread and others) that teens and pre-teens are a) old enough to make up their own minds about whether they will or won't see a parent, and b) that there is nothing a parent can do about it if a teen won't do something when nicely asked.

But I see anyway from happy's last post, that it doesn't apply in her case, since it's not the kids who are avoiding the contact. Sorry if my aside has distracted, happy. Good luck.

The thing is though in this situation the op and her dp are not married and don't even live together.

Also op talks about her own not wanting her own dd to live with her dad should anything ever happen to her. And for her dp to fight to adopt her dd. that doesn't really tie in with the child/father relationship being so important.

yanbu

Also op talks about her own not wanting her own dd to live with her dad should anything ever happen to her. And for her dp to fight to adopt her dd. that doesn't really tie in with the child/father relationship being so important

You have no idea to the background to this. Could be that he was abussive

It is court ordered contact so has to be maintained. You do the same with teenagers at home, you don't let them do what they want! When they are in their teens they will be more aware what's going on, will have more of a say

It sounds as though these children do want contact with their father

It is court ordered contact so has to be maintained. You do the same with teenagers at home, you don't let them do what they want! When they are in their teens they will be more aware what's going on, will have more of a say

Exactly. A judge has ordered it. If either parent breaches it then they are breaking the court order which is an offence and can be enforced. It's not something that you do/don't do depending on which way the wind is blowing.

I have no idea although in one bit the op states that she makes sure that her dd maintains contact and then in another breath states she would like her dd to be adopted by her dp.

I'm always sceptical when it's the stepmum posting about the evil ex wife and the down beaten dad who's just desperate to see his kids. Yet it's never him posting.

A court can enforce it and can even put a rp in prison for breaking the contact order.

It doesn't mean that's necessarily right though in all cases.

I've known a child who was forced to go to fortnightly contact literally in tears. Her dad wasn't abusive as such but he did nothing whatsoever with her, if she bought toys he wouldn't then let her take them back home, he forced her to eat things that she hated seemingly almost deliberately such as plates of dry mashed potato when there were a million other things that she could have eaten.

I'm not saying that this is the case here at all but I think it's a real shame parents can't be amicable, flexible and reasonable for the children. As the op is simply the dp who doesn't actually even live with the father I'm sceptical there's more to it. I imagine the mother here has a different story to tell.

Different lifestyles, which are usually the root cause of different parenting styles, are often the underlying cause of relationship breakdown in the first place. Parents cannot get on for the children's sake because of the fundamental differences that drove them apart in the first place.

Of course the mother would. But she isn't posting. It's an anonymous Internet forum where you ideally should take what's been written in as good faith as is possible.

They pyj, I know of a friend of mine, whose ex was abusive to her, he has a criminal record for abuse, he sexually assaulted her which is going through cps. The child has told her that his dad us sexually touching him, (police,ss, school are useless burying heads in the sand when she reported it). Judge ignoring vital evidence against thus man ordering unsupervised contact for her chikd. If she breaches it, residency could be reversed . She has to force her dc to go to his abuser every week. Each week he takes a bit of him away but she has to

Dc is 6