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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

353 replies

HopeYoureHappy · 23/07/2014 13:46

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot Confused

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

OP posts:
OvertiredandConfused · 24/07/2014 12:07

Imagine the responses if the OP had gone like this

"I'm the NRP. MY DC are 7 and 9 and I've been separated from their mum for about 6 years. I love them to bits and really look forward to the time we can spend together. I have a new partner and another DC, with twins on the way. I don't want my DC to feel second best and I want to continue to have a good relationship as they get older, not just because I want it but because I think it's in their best interests to have both parents involved in their lives. I understand things might evolve as they get older and become more independent with active social lives and I'm more than willing to work with my ex to make sure contact works for us all.

Unfortunately, my ex seems to do everything she can to discourage their weekend visits or make them sound like a chore. How can I resolve this without making it an even bigger battle?"

bluebell8782 · 24/07/2014 12:41

Exactly Overtired! When written like that, it sounds quite similar to my situation.

Thank goodness for brdgl and Needaholiday - voices of reason on vile threads like these...

Also thank goodness for judges who don't hold the same view as some of these posters...

OP - good luck. You have my sympathies. My DH's ex can text a few evil sentences and in a moment try and invalidate 6 years of my life. We are a family, the child LIVES with us EOW and we do normal family day-to-day things. Sometimes it's fun stuff, sometimes it's mundane food shopping - it's life! SD is a part of mums family and she is part of dads - just because she lives with mum longer does not mean our family means less and can be disposable.

I think people tend to project their own personal circumstances which will of course steer their opinion on the OP. However, sometimes things can be very simple, one parent can be bitter and will interfere as much as they can with the other's contact time and sometimes one parent is a waste of space and will deserve the interference. Just because the OP is the step-mum and is the one posting doesn't mean she is interfering, she's trying to support her partner and step-children (which is obviously not allowed as all step-mothers should put-up and shut-up and fit nicely into a box so as not to upset 'The Mother' who can do no wrong...)

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:03

So OP isn't even living with the chap?

This just gets more and more confusing.

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 13:18

I'm not sure what is confusing about it.
Their living arrangements don't really change anything about the OP's question or her right to ask it.

isn't even living with the chap?
No, she's not living with him (apparently they are living separately at the moment but considering a move together) - he's 'just' her partner and the father of her children. What's with the "even"?

WakeyCakey45 · 24/07/2014 13:20

Wakey, that's a fascinating link, and a clear example of a case where the RP's hostility to contact (for no good reason) has been harmful. But the judge didn't order the father to give up - the outcome was that the judge ordered a rehearing.

Yes, I realised after I posted that I wasn't clear. The case reported was the appeal against the "order" that Dad should give up and have no contact. That case has been ongoing for 12 years though - how many NRP have got the resources to keep that up in the face of such impacable hostility? Most will have to give up for practical reasons; finances, time, emotional support.

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:22

Well no brd he isn't her partner, he's her boyfriend.

I'm a bit taken aback that this tampering in contact arrangements, which is an ill-advised recipe for frustration even for a wife or partner, is coming from a non-resident girlfriend with other things to worry about.

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 13:24

Well no brd he isn't her partner, he's her boyfriend.

Ha ha ha! Would you care to define the terms for me, Fideline?

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:28

Erm they are fairly obvious aren't they? Confused

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 13:31

The OP is pregnant, they have been in a relationship for 5 years. Logistics mean at the moment they aren't actually living together. What difference does it actually make?

It's not tampering. She hasn't said she is glint to confront the ex herself or is even wadding in. She is asking for suggestions and support.

Thumbwitch · 24/07/2014 13:35

I think you'll find that he's her fiancé actually.

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:36

She is asking for suggestions and support.

The best suggestion is to back off, detach, and let the parents deal but she doesn't want to do that for some reason Hmm

If the mother really is being U, the only rational response is for the father to pursue the appropriate legal steps, which his girlfriend cannot do anyway

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:36

I think you'll find that he's her fiancé actually.

Ah missed that. Sorry.

wheresthelight · 24/07/2014 13:37

Jesus christ there are some ignorant arrogant people posting on this thread.

This is why stepmums get such bad press, not because of what they do but because of other people's ridiculous assumptions and accusations.

Op please repost in the step parenting forum, with the exception of the odd one or two people who have also posted on this thread we are a very nice bunch!!

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 13:37

Only in your head, I suspect.
Please, define the difference for me? I'm dying to hear how you decide when someone is a partner versus a girlfriend. Or indeed, how you define a "family".

Are you confused by the fact that there is a legally defined term "civil partnership?"

"Civil partnership" is a specific term, the specificity of which rests on that word "civil", which is there precisely to distinguish it from other types of partnership.

A "partner" is defined, at least in the Oxford English dictionary, as " Either member of a married couple or of an established unmarried couple". That fits with most common usage I have seen, including the common usage on these boards.

Civil partnership is not a prerequisite or synonym for partnership. [It is also not legally recognised as a point at which a woman may begin to have concerns about her family, but that should be obvious...]

When I was my now-DH's "girlfriend" (as you would have it), we had shared finances, a daughter together, and a family life. Oh, and our daughter had two siblings.
So I think I might have felt a teensy bit like more than a " non-resident girlfriend with other things to worry about".

thebluehen · 24/07/2014 13:37

I can't believe how many posters at condoning a 7 and 9 year old making the decisions whether to see their dad based on such things as a paddling pool!

Would those same posters condone kids deciding not to eat anything but sweets or not visit grandparents or not go to bed or not go to school based on such fickle reasoning? Hmm

And when the kids are grown up and have no idea of what to expect in a male partner who becomes a dad to their kids or how to be a dad, will these same people criticise this father and partner for not being there for those kids?

Court ordered contact is seen as optional. Teach the kids to stick two fingers up at their father and the authorities. Hmm

My ds is 16, but even at his age, he knows he doesn't mess his dad around with regards to "contact". Why would a mum teach a child to disrespect one person but respect all others?

I feel very sorry for the kids.

thebluehen · 24/07/2014 13:40

I can't believe how many posters at condoning a 7 and 9 year old making the decisions whether to see their dad based on such things as a paddling pool!

Would those same posters condone kids deciding not to eat anything but sweets or not visit grandparents or not go to bed or not go to school based on such fickle reasoning? Hmm

And when the kids are grown up and have no idea of what to expect in a male partner who becomes a dad to their kids or how to be a dad, will these same people criticise this father and partner for not being there for those kids?

Court ordered contact is seen as optional. Teach the kids to stick two fingers up at their father and the authorities. Hmm

My ds is 16, but even at his age, he knows he doesn't mess his dad around with regards to "contact". Why would a mum teach a child to disrespect one person but respect all others?

I feel very sorry for the kids.

needaholidaynow · 24/07/2014 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WakeyCakey45 · 24/07/2014 13:41

It's interesting, isn't it? When a couple are together, the label given to their 'relationship' seems very important.

Yet once a couple who share a child have split, it doesn't matter if they were married, living together, boyfriend/girlfriend, FWB, or just a one night stand - they are always "the ex".

Do we know what the relationship status of the OPs "boyfriend" and his ex was? Would it make a difference if they had never been a couple or lived together?

PorkPieandPickle · 24/07/2014 13:41

I can't be arsed to argue with comments like NRP contact being 'non-essential' as they are quite clearly ridiculous.

OP YANBU. Just wanted to add another voice of support.

Good luck with the hearing and all the best for the birth of your twins.

littleSpud · 24/07/2014 13:41

Yanbu op

Anyone who thinks that Rps never manipulate their dc is deluded

I've seen it time and time again

OneDreamOnly · 24/07/2014 13:42

Oh my word! MN sometimes amazes me but is taking it to a whole different level.
Seeing their dad but being an essential thing to a child ?!? Really??

At that age children will be very easily manipulated attracted by other things and leaving them 'decide' is leaving them the opportunity to loose contact with a father that wants to see them.
They should be 'made' to go. Sometimes there will be an occasion where they have THE birthday party to attend or whatever but it should be occasional.
And the children shouldn't be put on the situation where they have to 'choose'. Asking the child to choose between x activity with mummy or y with daddy is asking the child to choose between his parents. So so wrong.

I have to say no real advise apart from the fact that your DH should go back to court about it as his ex is breaching the agreement.
But I can see how emotionally draining it is, how he is made to feel bad about himself (see your dcs don't want to go because you/what you are offering isn't good enough!).
:( :(

OneDreamOnly · 24/07/2014 13:42

Sorry should have read
seeing their dad NOT an essential thing to do unlike school

brdgrl · 24/07/2014 13:43

Yet once a couple who share a child have split, it doesn't matter if they were married, living together, boyfriend/girlfriend, FWB, or just a one night stand - they are always "the ex" Do we know what the relationship status of the OPs "boyfriend" and his ex was? Would it make a difference if they had never been a couple or lived together?
Yes, wakey, I was thinking the same thing...

WakeyCakey45 · 24/07/2014 13:44

the only rational response is for the father to pursue the appropriate legal steps, which his girlfriend cannot do anyway

That's not actually true. There are a number of situations in which an unrelated adult without PR can apply to family court regarding child matters.
Contact with half-siblings is often given a lot of weight in court.

EarthWindFire · 24/07/2014 13:44

The best suggestion is to back off, detach, and let the parents deal but she doesn't want to do that for some reason

Because she loves her DP and can see the hurt it is causing him and her DC who has also bonded with them?