to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

[HopeYoureHappy]

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

brdgrl - yes, sorry, that is all I meant, I clearly misunderstood what you were referring to as the work of fiction, sorry. :)

My answer is to not allow your control level to come to far untethered from your emotional investment. And if it happens, to insulate the kids as best you can and try to rectify the situation to regain some reasonable level of control.

And we've come round in a full circle. You may be able to keep your control and emotional investment tethered, but how do you ensure your DCs do? How can you insulate the DCs? How do you rectify the situation? Your solution to preventing your DC getting too attached to their potential stepsibs before a commitment was made was to hasten your marriage - which was right for your circumstances in which other parents were not a factor.

But how do you rectify the situation if it has occurred? Do you, as the OP is, support your DP to resolve the issues associated with contact - learn what you can about the legal options, emotionally and financially support him fight the injustice that is
Or do you do as I did, which is issue an ultimatum to your DP, making it clear you will end the relationship unless he prevents his DCs from coming into contact with your own?

I don't think it ever works unless you can let go of the negative feelings. How's that for a universally applicable rule?

This absolutely sums up the difficulties of being a SM to me. Unless you are an absolute saint who not only doesn't voice but doesn't even HAVE negative feelings, you're apparently onto a loser. What a totally unrealistic expectation. The very reason that stepfamilies exist means that there is a history of hurt and pain for any member of the newly blended family and for any exes.

ExW in my situation is sounds exactly like the ex in OPs situation. ExW in my situation has been told in no uncertain terms by a CAFCASS officer that she is damaging the children's relationship with their father, that she is damaging their emotional and psychological development by emotionally abusing them by disrupting necessary contact and that she has to stop. And since then? She's got worse! One of her DC was absolutely hysterical at the start of one contact day and why? Because "mum will be angry if I go with you". It does happen. It happens to nice fathers who engage their children in age appropriate activities, who fought through the system practically bankrupting themselves and making themselves physically and mentally ill through stress and all for what? Because having TWO parents where TWO parents are available and safe is in the best interests of the children and some PWC think they can withhold their child's right to that and continue to do so despite the court ordering that contact is necessary.

I wasn't very clear, thumbwitch. :)

yes, sorry, that is all I meant, I clearly misunderstood what you were referring to as the work of fiction,

Can you tell me Thumb please?

Because I thought brd was accusing me of inventing the details that the OP was not living with he partner and that she was preganant with twins.

BTW brd how is it 'snarky' to describe the above plus existing child plus contact dispute re future stepchild as 'having a lot on'? It's not as though as I said 'Bloody hell the OP's life is a lurid soap opera' is it?

But how do you rectify the situation if it has occurred?

I think it will vary for each situation. I'm sure sadly sometimes it will involve splitting.

Or do you do as I did, which is issue an ultimatum to your DP, making it clear you will end the relationship unless he prevents his DCs from coming into contact with your own?

Sounds horrible wakey Sorry to hear it.

BTW brd how is it 'snarky' to describe the above plus existing child plus contact dispute re future stepchild as 'having a lot on'? It's not as though as I said 'Bloody hell the OP's life is a lurid soap opera' is it?
Quick, someone, hand her a shovel!

This absolutely sums up the difficulties of being a SM to me. Unless you are an absolute saint who not only doesn't voice but doesn't even HAVE negative feelings, you're apparently onto a loser. What a totally unrealistic expectation. The very reason that stepfamilies exist means that there is a history of hurt and pain for any member of the newly blended family and for any exes.

I think a lot of women martyr themselves and poison themselves trying to be saints tether. Why? I don't see many men doing it.

Fideline - as I now understand it, brdgrl was talking about your assessment that all the other stuff going on in the OP's life might be underlying the current problem, when you said this:
Maybe the fact that OP is pregnant with twins and engaged but moving in together and the wedding are being held up are what is really upsetting her and the contact issue has become a proxy issue? She certainly sounds as though she has a lot on this year.

So basically, you're making an assumption as to what prompted this thread, and suggesting that the OP isn't really concerned about the contact so much as stressing about the other things going on in her life.

I know this is completely off topic but I'm finding this newish thing of quoting in bold to be quite hard to read! I liked quotation marks and italics better...

Well 'soap opera' is what I would have said if i was tryig to be snide

The OP sounds exhausted and resentful and 'protest too much' to me. She completely lost my sympathy with the catty remarks about the mum's perfectly normal family life (trips out, playing out, visiting grandparents) but then I admit I am phobic about stepmothers making themselves look catty.

I hope when she resolves a few things, what remains will be easier to deal with.

"So basically, you're making an assumption as to what prompted this thread, and suggesting that the OP isn't really concerned about the contact so much as stressing about the other things going on in her life."

Fair enough, I suppose I am. Well not exactly. I am working on a supposition that an overload of stresses makes them all look worse.

(Is that formatting better?)

And that is more than enough for one thread for one day

I'm not stressing about anything, I just hate seeing DP downtrodden, DD upset and DSC manipulated. I wasn't the OW fwiw. DSC mum left DP for another man, when he left her a year later she asked DP to take her back. He refused and she's always thought that was because he'd met me by that point, rather than the more logical reason that she'd been sleeping with his friend in their bed for months!

I think saying he's my boyfriend because we don't yet live together but would be my partner if we did is rather ridiculous. So if we had been together for five weeks and lived together he'd be my partner, but 5 years in and not living together and he's only my boyfriend?Despite being engaged The idea of us living apart has been to help with contact as DSC mum hates the idea of them being part of a family with us.

Yes thank you :) [grateful]

I've just been and re-read the OP's remarks about the mum's "normal life" and their "normal life" and I can't see the cattiness; all I can see is the explanation that the trips out/holidays/meals out are not on offer on the mum's weekends, they're only offered on the weekends that the SDC should be at their Dad's, which would make it more enticing to stay with Mum and have the special treats than go to Dad's and do "normal life" things like biking and swimming.
I may be missing the subtext that you are seeing; or it may be that I don't have any angle on it because I've not been in the situation - do you really think she is being catty? How?

Why? Because SMs are constantly told directly or indirectly that it won't work unless you let go of negative feelings.

Actually what really works is that everybody gets a say, all feelings are heard by the appropriate person at an appropriate time and those feelings are validated and a joint effort is made to come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. That's not easy and it's not always possible but "having no negative feelings" is unrealistic.

The OP wasn't asking how to be a stepmum though, or opinions on if she even is a stepmum or anything of the sort. She was asking whether it was appropriate that children of 7 and 9 should be allowed to reject contact -specifically court ordered contact with a parent and more specifically when that rejection is clearly being encouraged by the other parent.

I don't think it's catty to say that swimming and bike rides is normal family life rather than theme parks, takeaways, endless new toys and gadgets - just as their mums weekends of playing out, visiting GPs etc is normal family life. The use of theme parks on DPs weekends are clearly bribes as she has ample time to have these trips on her weekends, but chooses not to.

Ah I see, HopeYoureHappy - that makes a LOT of sense as to why she's so obstructive (thank you for answering). It's still not right though, and what the hell is she going to do when you do get married and move in together?

If it were just DP and I then I'd be able to just make the best of whatever contact he got but seeing my DD and the DSC upset, plus in future their siblings is not fair. Every time their mum cancels contact, DD has to choose between being honest when DSC ask what we did that weekend and then getting them being horrible to her because they missed out and she didn't or lying to them. Hardly fair on her.

Well sadly it can't get much worse Thumb, can it?

Don't go tempting fate, Hope ;)

Fwiw op I'm not sure that you'll ever get unbiased opinions somewhere like here because the type of people who can be bothered to reply will often be other step parents who have had similar experiences. Or resident parents who have had bad experiences with useless ex husbands who blame everything on them.

I don't think that your dp should ever just 'give up', if their mum is poisoning their minds then giving up will just reinforce this. But obviously you have to find a way of doing this without tearing them in two.

I don't think it's catty to say that swimming and bike rides is normal family life rather than theme parks, takeaways, endless new toys and gadgets - just as their mums weekends of playing out, visiting GPs etc is normal family life. The use of theme parks on DPs weekends are clearly bribes as she has ample time to have these trips on her weekends, but chooses not to.

I'm of the picnic and bike ride preference myself but why can't you just stick to saying the stuff about frustrating contact?

There is no such thing as 'normal family life'. People have very different lifestyles.

Firstly, if there's a contact order then she's legally not allowed to Breach it and has to do what she can to get the kids to go unless she thinks they're in danger.

Secondly, if she's bribing them then of course they don't want to go. And matching her bribes would be completely unaffordable for most families paticularly with twins on the way!

I would make my kids come with me to see grandparents if they didn't want to at 7, so to me it's reasonable to expect them to see their dad.

I don't know what to advise but it is your business and I'm assuming your posting for advice to give your dp anyway as he probably doesn't use mn... I can't see how it's unreasonable...

Oh and also I totally sympathise. My dsds are 11 year old twins. We always have a good time together and there's no reason for them to not want to come, in face dsd 1 keeps asking if she can come and live here.

Her mum has guilt tripped her about this and since she asked her, she has continuously planned things for our weekends, such as seeing family members and slightly more reasonable birthday parties (except their mum and stepdad have 8 kids between them so that's lots of birthdays they're required to attend) and we have them eow and this happens about once month now! They end up in a difficult position because they want to come to us but they don't want to miss out and want to be included with their mums family/ friends stuff. What is most frustrating is that every time we ask what they did on their mums weekend they say nothing we just played on xbox/outside etc etc.

Sorry Fideline I think you're misinterpreting Hope's use of normal family life - she's saying "normal for their family time with their mum" and "normal for their family time with their dad", not "normal for every family everywhere".

Can't see it. Maybe it's the heat.