to think children shouldn't choose if they have contact with NRP if no welfare concerns?

[HopeYoureHappy]

DP has a contact order regarding his 7 and 9 year old children. Their mum has constantly breached it and uses the reason that it's the childrens choice - for example - DS doesn't want phone contact, he's busy on the iPad, DD has decided she'd rather go to her friends party and she wants me to take her, DS doesn't want to come because you don't have a paddling pool and he thinks he'll get too hot

Sometimes it's both DC that don't come, sometimes just one. Last time DD 'didn't feel likeit' and when DS ddiscussed a planned and paid for day out next week, he asked if DD was coming and DP replied 'no idea, she'll be the one missing out if she chooses not to.' AIBU to think that this is the wrong attitude and that the DC shouldn't be able to choose whether they come for contact any more than they can choose whether or not to go to school? They are always happy here and there's no welfare concerns but they are very much manipulated by their mum who bribes them to stay ('we could've gone to Thorpe park, but you're going to your dad's...) and tells them she'll ne lonely without them.

DP seems resigned to this messing around but they are back in court for review next month and I think he should ask the judge to ensure that DSC mum must adhere to the order and not put the DC in the middle. What do you think?

Honestly, the idea that as soon as you are dating someone with DC you are 'stepparent' is one of the most barmy and damaging notions around. And it is widespread on MN.

FFS, fideline, you are really flogging that dead horse, aren't you? The OP is not "dating someone with DC". You're being really insulting and judgmental, and a complete hypocrite with your "there is more than one approach" line - you can't acknowledge that any other approach but your own might be valid.

brd it is not a question of approval but of effectiveness. I hardly need to duplicate the majority view when I am espousing an alternative, do I?

FFS, fideline, you are really flogging that dead horse, aren't you? The OP is not "dating someone with DC". You're being really insulting and judgmental,

I'm not talking about the OP, I'm talking about myself.

You persist in characterising my 'decorative' remark as being about stepmums. It isn't. It is about a time when I was dating a man with a daughter.

I think it depends on circumstances as to whether or not you can be 'softly softly or not'. IYSWIM.

If for example in my DPs case where the split between parents was acrimonious with various court issues around frustrated contact, birthday cards sent back unopened and ripped up, breached contact orders I would challenge anyone to put their hands up and say it is between the two if you to sort out.

By the OP posting on here it doesn't mean she is interfering or challenging the ex. She is supporting her DP.

There is a difference.

Even more so as DSDs mother had died and my DC had lost their relationship with their dad due to DV so they had all had enough loss and trauma already. We wanted to give them complete certainty and security.

So very different from the OPs situation, in which she is trying to balance the impact of her boyfriends DCs choices on her own DD?

Can you understand the conflict that a potential, pseudo or actual SM may feel when her own DC is being hurt by the actions of the DCs fathered by a man she loves?

I think it's reasonable for a mum in that situation to turn to a forum such as this for support and advice. Whether or not she has any responsibility for her boyfriends children and their situation so irrelevant - she does have a responsibility for her own DCs and she is powerless to protect them. It is the OPs boyfriend and the mother of his children who are responsible for the children who are behaving in a way that is causing the OPs DD to be hurt.

brd it is not a question of approval but of effectiveness.

So which is it, fideline? You have personally cracked the secret to effective stepparenting? Or there is more than one approach?

Or maybe the real question is...Why are you so invested in grinding down the OP?

By the OP posting on here it doesn't mean she is interfering or challenging the ex. She is supporting her DP.

TBH Earth it was some little asides the OP made including one comparing the DCs trips out with their mum to 'our normal family life on bikes' (or similar) that lead me to conclude her intent wasn't purely supportive.

Honestly, the idea that as soon as you are dating someone with DC you are 'stepparent' is one of the most barmy and damaging notions around. And it is widespread on MN

What a ridiculous thing to say. The OP isn't 'dating' her DP just because they aren't living together-they're engaged and she's pregnant with his children.

X-post; I see BRD has this covered

No the real question is why is the OP so invested in grinding down the mother of her future DSCs?

The 'normal family life' remark looks even cattier now we know she isn't even living with them.

I don't think it ever works unless you can let go of the negative feelings. How's that for a universally applicable rule?

What a ridiculous thing to say. The OP isn't 'dating' her DP just because they aren't living together-they're engaged and she's pregnant with his children.

pork read it. I was talking about me. I made a remark about having a decorative role when I first met my now DSD. brd insists it was remark a stepmums - it was the opposite - i was decorative because I WASN'T a stepmum I was just dating her dad.

No the real question is why is the OP so invested in grinding down the mother of her future DSCs?

Because the choices that mother is making (facilitating her DDs opting out of court ordered contact) is hurting the OPs DC.

Like any mother, she is defending her cub.

No the real question is why is the OP so invested in grinding down the mother of her future DSCs?

Probably because she sees her DP being ground down. It is hard when you see the person you love looking forward to seeing their children only for it not to happen, time and time again.

It really is a hard situation to be with and no two situations are the same.

Like any mother, she is defending her cub.

Oh believe me I understand the emotion, I'm disputing the tactic.

She is suffering the effects but she has no control. The fiance/dad has the control.

She either needs to hurry up marriage and PR to have some practical and legal input or emotionally detach a bit but until her control levels match better with her emotional involvement she will feel frustrated, which is toxic.

It is better to DO something about it that make snide remarks though.

You persist in characterising my 'decorative' remark as being about stepmums. It isn't. It is about a time when I was dating a man with a daughter.
Ah. You are being deliberately obtuse again. You made your remarks with the very clear purpose of advising the OP (and others like her) to follow suit:

But before I lived with my now husband I took the pragmatic view that my role in his DDs life was entirely decorative. I do appreciate that involvement without control can be frustrating but impotently spinning your wheels only makes it worse.

Now you are playing a rhetorical game wherein you hide behind a circular argument. You have decided on your own rigid definition which says that an unmarried, non-co-habitating woman cannot be a stepmum, and therefore by your own definition, you aren't including "stepmums" in your remarks. I see what you did there. :)

Except you are making remarks intended to comment on the OP's situation, she defines herself as a stepmum, and the intent of your remark is absolutely clear to anyone reading it in context. Which is something you ought to work on.

I think this is why I was bothered/faster about marriage/legalities/wills the second time around. They are really useful in step situations

No brd YOU are twisting my remark;

Honestly, the idea that as soon as you are dating someone with DC you are 'stepparent' is one of the most barmy and damaging notions around. And it is widespread on MN.

to be specifically about the OP, it wasn't - I was speaking generally.

You made your remarks with the very clear purpose of advising the OP (and others like her) to follow suit

I'm not advising people to follow suit so much as offering an alternative view. People can do what they like. I have my opinions, other people have theirs.

She either needs to hurry up marriage and PR to have some practical and legal input

You are also misinformed (or at least, misinforming). One does not need to have PR to have practical "input" over one's stepchildren. One doesn't need marriage, either. One certainly doesn't need it in order to advise one's partner as the OP is interested in doing - or indeed, to parent one's stepchildren.

Moreover, a stepparent cannot get PR without the consent of both parents, so it is unlikely to be a solution for the OP (or many others). Many blended families do not seek or have PR for the stepparent for that reason (or others). I am surprised that you would be unaware of this.

One does not need to have PR to have practical "input" over one's stepchildren. One doesn't need marriage, either.

I didn't mean to suggest she did. Everday hands-on practical involvement would be a big step forward in itself, I imagine. It will also be settling for her existing DD once they are all under one roof, which must currently be a big worry.

She does seem very invested in contact arrangements though. So PR might be worth looking at if she wants to be party to legal proceedings. It is worth considering all opptions, no?

I know four stepfamilies (I think) where living parents have happily signed SPRAs. It feels as though it is becoming more common. And of course courts can award PR.

She either needs to hurry up marriage and PR to have some practical and legal input

fideline I think your personal experience has resulted in a misunderstanding on your part.

It is very, very unusual for a married or unmarried stepmum to be awarded PR by the court. Unlike your DC and DSC, the OPs future DSC have two active,involved parents.
Why would the court consider PR necessary?

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that most stepmums do not have PR.

The situation the OP finds herself in is impossible. Her DD, and potentially her unborn DCs will continue to be hurt by the actions of their step/half siblings all the while their mother is willing to facilitate their opting out of contact.

I imagine it was hard for you to detach from the impact that your personal circumstances (in relation to DV) had on your own DCs. Yet you are advising the OP to detach from her own DDs hurt?

fideline I think your personal experience has resulted in a misunderstanding on your part.

Possibly. We do also know several semi-amicable families where bothe stepmum and stepdad have PR by agreement. It might not be a representative sample. But cohabitation and marriage in themselves are steps to more influence, just by being 'on the scene' all the time.

I imagine it was hard for you to detach from the impact that your personal circumstances (in relation to DV) had on your own DCs. Yet you are advising the OP to detach from her own DDs hurt?

Oh no. Detatch her and her DD from the shenanigans a bit. I don't want to say too much, but I'm sure you can imagine the circus that can result when we are negotiating with several (doting but demanding) maternal relatives for contact time instead of one exw.

That is what I think of when I think of my zen like detaching practice these days. The DV is all in the past. My ex has been missing for years.

fideline have you ever experienced a contested family court case? Have your DCs been subject to CAFCASS interview? Did you attend a finding of fact hearing?

As your DSC don't have a living biological mother, I realise that you won't have been a bystander to these proceedings as many stepmums have - reading about themselves in wishes and feelings reports, court papers, applications addressed to their DP and yet having no voice of their own.

But if you have experienced family court as a mum, then can you imagine how scary it would be to see your and your DCs presence and behaviour being cited in court material yet be unable to participate in the proceedings yourself?

fideline have you ever experienced a contested family court case? Have your DCs been subject to CAFCASS interview? Did you attend a finding of fact hearing?

Yes. They were very small. Awful.

But if you have experienced family court as a mum, then can you imagine how scary it would be to see your and your DCs presence and behaviour being cited in court material yet be unable to participate in the proceedings yourself?

Ah I see. I think we are coming at the same issue from different ends.

It's the key question - what do you do when you have no control? When the most precious things in your life are getting sucked in to that mess?

My answer is to not allow your control level to come to far untethered from your emotional investment. And if it happens, to insulate the kids as best you can and try to rectify the situation to regain some reasonable level of control.

Anything else is to0 stressful to live with. Maybe that is informed by my experience of DV. I don't know.

(My first husband had a child when I met him and a not entirely rational exw BTW, so I do have the experience in that sense too. It is years of reflecting of how you reasonably react when a woman you don't know wrecks your toddler's weekend or what you do when your husband breaks your nose that informs this personal philosophy. I apologise to anyone offended by the 'take the high road' elements of it)