to take child home early?

[Boreoff]

Today is hot, my 5 year old had an all day trip to the local park and I also went along to help.

4 hours in, after lunch I had to leave and my dc wanted to come with me as dc was very hot (covered in sweat) I asked the teacher and she was very rude to me and not happy that we were leaving early and made this very clear infront of my dc.

I had to leave and took my dc with me as dc would have become upset as she was so hot a bothered.

AIBU to have taken her home with me?

It's verging on insanity to take a classful of 5 year olds out into the park for 6 hours in this heat. It doesn't matter how much shade there is, they will get hot, tired and miserable, and there is, quite simply, absolutely no educational value in it.

It's the end of term, there was really no reason why OP shouldn't have taken her daughter. If there were other hot, tired and unhappy children there who wouldn't have liked it, that should have been yet another signal to the teacher that they'd been out too long and she should take them back to school.

It this teacher has any sense, she should now be reflecting on her own bad practice rather than any annoyance she might have with the OP.

brdgrl - She challenged the legitimate authority of the teacher when she removed her child without the teacher's consent and agreement about the situation.

You quote my statement above and disagree with it, saying The teacher has no legitimate authority to prevent a parent , barring a court order, to prevent a parent from removing a child from the classroom or from a school activity. None whatsoever. The parent does not, as you suggest, surrender parental authority to the teacher.

The parent certainly doesn't surrender parental authority to the teacher because parental authority can only be exercised by a parent - I never suggested that. But parents have a legal duty to ensure that children attend school and cannot withdraw them from school attendance on a whim or without good reason. In the situation described, the OP removed her child from a school session for a reason with which the teacher obviously disagreed, and did not hide her disapproval. The teacher did not try to prevent the parent from taking her child away - the OP never suggested this (and neither did I).She simply did not respond to the OP's decision as cheerfully and enthusiastically as the OP would have liked because she obviously thought there was insufficient reason for the child to be taken out of the school session.

I didn't say that the OP was wrong to remove her child - the fact is that none of us were there and therefore can't make a judgement. I was simply saying that there are two sides to this and there is no definitive answer.

Actually. It is nice that you're fond of the children you teach.

Sorry, too many "prevents" there!

But i think the op was right to take her child home.

checkpoint it isn't your job to love the children in your class. That is the parents' job and precisely why the parents are best placed to make decisions about their individual child's needs. Not you.

rednecks, you'd probably be horrified at the number of children I've heard say they love their teacher.

That's fine, Amanda!- everyone must reach their own conclusion. I have been on and off this thread all day because I think it's an interesting one, but in my first post I said that, if the OP genuinely thought her daughter was suffering, it was her duty as her parent to take her away. Who could argue with that? However, equally, if the teacher genuinely believed that the OP was making a fuss about nothing, and her action would actually make her job harder in dealing with the rest of her class, who can blame her for reacting less than enthusiastically? Because that is what the OP was complaining about - the fact that the teacher didn't completely accept her point of view and wholeheartedly endorse her decision. My point is is that there are two sides to this - two possible viewpoints - and there is no possible way to validate one rather than another.

I don't mind children saying they love their teacher - because that is a childlike response to describe the relationship. My dd has "loved" a couple of teachers, and "loathed" a couple. Ds has never had an opinion either way. But I am assuming an adult teacher has a broader set of emotions than the average mixed infant. When teachers adopt "I LOVE your children!" gushing language, it makes me cringe and I find it unprofessional. (But I digress...)

So you find teachers expressing normal human emotions cringeworthy and unprofessional, rednecks. I presume you'd prefer they were indifferent to their charges or kept their embarrassing opinions to themselves?

What's a "mixed infant" by the way?

Mixed infant is showing my age it's the traditional word for children in co-educational schools (though I still see some schools using it). I have no problems with emotions, but I don't want professionals talking in those terms in a professional setting which some teachers do. It isn't appropriate.

But parents have a legal duty to ensure that children attend school and cannot withdraw them from school attendance on a whim or without good reason.
BetterCall, you are distorting both the nature and the intent of the relevant legislation. It does not prevent a parent from removing a child from the classroom or activity. Taking a student out of the school on an individual occasion is perfectly within the rights of the parent. The teacher may report that action, and if it is determined that the parent is not providing for regular school attendance, action can be taken.
I was simply saying that there are two sides to this and there is no definitive answer.
But there is. It is the responsibility of the parent to decide what is in their child's best interest. That is the definitive answer. Of course they may potentially be subsequently judged not to be acting in their child's best interest. Teachers do not make that determination, and the laws give no such responsibility to teachers. They can report what they see, and they can keep records to assist the state in monitoring attendance of children.

I work only with vulnerable children and believe me, I couldn't care less if a parent deems it unprofessional or inappropriate. If it means that child is shown human warmth and kindness - and yes, love - by at least one person in their life, that's good enough for me.

I don't mind children saying they love their teacher - because that is a childlike response to describe the relationship. My dd has "loved" a couple of teachers, and "loathed" a couple. Ds has never had an opinion either way. But I am assuming an adult teacher has a broader set of emotions than the average mixed infant. When teachers adopt "I LOVE your children!" gushing language, it makes me cringe and I find it unprofessional.
Well said.

Oh this is tricky - I know it seems the sensible thing but there is a sort of protocol in schools where anyone helping or employed by the school must not treat their children any differently. By taking a hot and bothered 5 year old (at 4 you can do what you want but at 5 they are the same as any) out of school, even for a few hours, you are marking her out as special or lucky, even if that wasn't your intention.

Its the "system" that makes you wrong, but the system is the system nonetheless, and if you want to opt out you can, though there is little middle ground.

It possibly would have been better to stay and make a stand about going somewhere cooler. Though you had to go to your dog.

It is possible your child was playing up a bit because she wanted to go home with you.

It is possible she would have been just as distressed regardless.

Like I said, just one of those tricky situations.

For what its worth I used to work at my sons school and I was not allowed to let him hold my hand, hug me and I wasn't allowed to put sunscreen on him. Its that bonkers.

And there are various reasons why that is and isn't stupid, both hold weight imo.

I'm sure kids have been sent home from school before or left early for appointments or been picked up in a family emergency.

All teacher had to say was "x isn't feeling well she's gone home"

They'd cope.

brdgrl - we are talking at cross-purposes. I am saying there is no definitive answer as to the state of the child! Ie we did not see what state she was in and cannot tell if she was actually unwell or just a bit sweaty (as the OP first described her). If the former, the OP was of course correct to take her home: if not, the teacher was well within her rights to be disapproving.

I am not disputing the parent's legal right to withdraw her child from an activity -I Imentioned the legal obligation to send your child school to emphasise that withdrawing your child from a school activity is not something to be taken lightly or casually - for example, because it's easier than having to make a second trip later or because you have to go home to walk the dog!

But the teacher didn't try to prevent the OP from taking her daughter and didn't even remonstrate with her about it. There is no question of the teacher trying to dispute the parent's right to decide what was best to do in the interests of her child :the teacher simply did not show the approval of the OP's action that the latter wanted. That is the point of this thread - the teacher's supposed "rudeness", which the OP interpreted (no doubt quite correctly) as disapproval. As the OP's action could well have had an adverse effect on the rest of the class, as well as undermining the importance of school attendance, it is understandable that the teacher felt annoyed if she felt the OP's decision had been made out of convenience and pragmatism rather than genuine need. I am saying there are two sides because any reasonable person would see this from the teacher's point of view too.

I am not disputing the parent's legal right to withdraw her child from an activity -I mentioned the legal obligation to send your child school to emphasise that withdrawing your child from a school activity is not something to be taken lightly or casually - for example, because it's easier than having to make a second trip later or because you have to go home to walk the dog!
Fair enough. I agree that parents should take the decision seriously (I think the OP did, though).
I don't think anyone has suggested that a parent who keeps their kid out/pulls them out lightly is doing a great thing - only that it is up to the parent to decide what is a 'good reason'. My personal threshold of "good reason" is different to that of some posters, who are free as individuals to disapprove of my parenting (as I am of their's!).
I don't agree that it is up to a teacher in her work capacity to approve or disapprove of the action taken; it isn't really the teacher's role to express approval or disapproval of my parenting. If they suspect abuse or neglect (or of course truancy which is a form of abuse/neglect), they should report it like any other person who works with children. Demonstrating "disapproval" doesn't seem appropriate or professional.

I will qualify that by saying that it isn't clear to me if the teacher in the OP expressed disapproval or not; as has been said, she may have just been busy and her attitude misread by OP, I really don't know of course! I was addressing the attitude of other posters on this thread who claim as teachers to have a right to a view - not just a personal opinion as we all do, but a professional judgement - about a parent acting as the OP did, and worse, some posters (not yourself) use language which does suggest that they feel as a teacher they have a (moral if not legal) right to intervene.

Teachers must have thought it was one hell of an exciting park to plan an entire day there. What were they doing for 5+ hours? I'd say it's too long for anybody if it's a normal park.
Sunscreen wears off throughout the day - were people reapplying it? Stressful for the teacher and helpers if some of the kids were not enjoying it.

well, yes, it does sound like a crap idea for an all day outing.

This may, of course, have coloured the teacher's less than fulsome response - several children are tired/wilting/bored, & then OP cheerily announces that she's off & taking hers with her...

'Great,' thinks the teacher, '...not only have I got to stay here for another 2 hours with this lot, now half of them are going to be whingeing to go home because they've seen LittleBoreoff head off with mummy...thanks for that'. Can certainly understand her game face slipping a bit, tbh.

If I were that teacher I'd be feeding back that next year's bash needed to be afternoon only, I think.