To smoke in the garden at a party?

[fber]

I lit up at a family bbq yesterday. Outside, big garden. The hostess (an inlaw) went a bit off her head and jumped from out of her own arse to right down my throat. Very publicly. There were children there, but they were playing a good way away. I have always done this at her parties, but now she has moved to a different, bigger house (it was a housewarming) it seems the goalposts have moved quite considerably. I was angry and upset at being shouted at like a kid. It's a party, right? A boozy housewarming (her words not mine).

Am I a social pariah?

AIBU?

Everyone has disgusting habits. Some people eat too much, some drink, some smoke, some bite their toenails, some pick their nose, etc. If you smoke, that is your choice.

Your relative was rude imo, given that she had never taken issue with your smoking before. She could have quietly asked that you go and smoke elsewhere without making a scene. I'm also not sure how anybody who was likely chowing down half a cow between a bap whilst pouring themselves another beer at a bbq has a leg to stand on when it comes to the whole "Remove your foul habit from my sight!" attitude But hey ho.

In the future, take it out the front now that you know she doesn't like it.

You're on, blubirdy

Wherever possible I walk. I would cycle but my knees are bags of gravel, so if somewhere is too far to walk I get a bus or a train. London buses are all being phased to have hybrid engines, which is excellent news. The minicabs I sometimes get also have hybrid engines these days. They are much much cleaner and also cheaper to run and much quieter.

IMO it's about time we thought about making all new cars with hybrid tech and then we could phase out combustion engines in urban and residential areas altogether.

ah wait a minute gardens, (have just PMed you btw). You are still not avoiding car fumes, anymore than cigarette fumes. You can try to eliminate the dangers from car fumes, but you're just REDUCING the risk, unless you live in ..... where was it I said in PM, the rain forest in Papau New Guinea? ..... then I don't see how you can avoid car (all motorised vehicles) fumes, and how they can be less dangerous than the odd whiff of of some passerby's cigarette.

I am not trying to get out of paying the fiver .... I will happily pay that with bells on.... but you're not explaining why car fumes are acceptable risks, and tobacco smoke isn't.

(really off to cook dinner now... eeeekkkk.... and I will create dangerous fumes with my charcoal powered bbq....L8ER. xxx)

Blubirdy, why should non smokers accommodate and cater for smokers? I fail to see how this relates to being hospitable.
If you decided you wanted to only crap in a cat litter tray in my living room as that's you addiction...I wouldn't be providing a tray for you.
Similarly I wouldn't want smoke blowing in my house.
It's a rather entitled opinion to expect people to be polite to you when you are being impolite by asking them to breathe second hand smoke that they don't want.

With regards the fake amusement at not letting children see smoking, of course that makes sense. The fewer role models they see smoking the better-surely? Here we are talking about a family member the DCs know. It won't burn their eyes to see but it will make them see it as the norm which it isn't. The percentages of smokers are far less than smokers.

I don't hide it from my children as they know what it is. Have you actually had to explain to a child what smoking is? My 4yo DD asked when she saw my sister smoking. Explaining it to a child really highlights the addiction. Saying something along the lines of "well it's a stick called a cigarette that contains a drug that is released with it's burnt and creates the smoke you can see. You have to use fire to light it and then you breathe in the drug and blow out the smoke".

DD thought I was joking that you put something on fire in your mouth and that people would do that even though it's bad for you and smells. She deemed that the practice is "silly". It now means she thinks my sister is silly. Really there's no arguing with her logic.

yanbu!

I'd argue with her. I'd say "if I want life advice from a four year old I'll know where to come - now off you trot, there's a dear".

Well if you aren't going to cater for smokers at your party (i.e. provide an ashtray in the garden), then you probably shouldn't invite them in the first place. If you are going to be rude to them and chastise them in public, then you won't expect them to accept any future invites from you.

Blubirdy, why should non smokers accommodate and cater for smokers? I fail to see how this relates to being hospitable

why should people with no kids accommodate kids?

why should seeing people/hearing people accommodate the deaf/blind?

why should able bodied people accommodate people with handicaps?

why should blue people accommodate green people?

why should young people accommodate old people?

why should adults accommodate children?

why should I accommodate the pregnant woman/man with broken ankle/person with tons of heavy shopping bags by giving them my seat in the bus

answer:

tolerance, hospitabily, manners, give and take, live and let live -- call it what you will, but you all (well not all, but too many of you in here) have severe lackings on these things.

I don't think anyone said we should turn our lounges into smoker-friendly environments with free ciggies on the coffee table and cigars in the cupboard and ashtrays on every surface.... but would it kill us to let a smoker have a bloody ciggy in our gardens. Is that such a big ask? I guess it is for intolerant people. Me, no issues, I will even buy ashtrays for you in poundland.

I'm more than happy for people to leave fag ends on the ground in my garden, as long as they're roughly all in the same place and I can pick them up and put them in the bin the next day. It really doesn't bother me at all. Tin cans are pretty good too! They disappear in the rain eventually anyhow.

Hospitabily should read hospitality - yikes.

Blubirdy - are you really likening a smoking habit to being old, disabled, a child, etc etc?

Firstly, none of those things are unhealthy for the people around, nor are they a choice!

I too don't see why non smokers should have to accommodate smoking just on the basis of hospitality. I doubt a smoker would make the effort to create a smoke free environment if the situations were reversed.

As I said upthread, I hate smoking as it makes me ill, plus a few other reasons.

But I don't go to someone else's bbq and expect them to not light up wherever they want. I just move myself away.

I expect the equivalent of a smoker at my house. Which in my case would be not in the back garden.

Of course YANBU.

Some of the smoking related hysteria nowadays is ridiculous.

What about 18 meters...would that suffice?

My house, my garden and I'd rather you didn't smoke. I hate it, with a passion. I think she didn't need to scream at you about it. But at the same time you should have asked.

Its a garden.
Its outside.
Its open air.

I should add, that she reads the daily mail. So more than a little judgemental, if you get my drift

Hi op, sit down I am not going to fit in with your tight narrow judgement here.....

I read the DM, I read most papers, and I hate The Guardian.

I am also a vehement anti smoker and hate people smoking outside houses ( near other peoples windows) in particular regularly through the night or day. I think its vile and selfish and intrusive.

however at a one off party, in a garden, standing away from people, I the DM reading anti smoker do not think you warranted being told off like that, I think its rude and people are allowed to smoke at parties!

She was in the wrong....maybe she just doesnt like you?:

I would not go to any party and be surprised if someone was smoking and if I was that against it I would not go,

People smoke at parties!

"How did a cigarette spoil the food? Did they flick ash in the coleslaw?"

The smell of cigarette smoke makes me feel faintly nauseous - a hangover from when my mum used to smoke in the car, and it contributed to my car sickness. Her refusing to believe that her fag smoke made me sick and headache-y when I told her, and then her carrying on smoking in the car is one of my more unhappy childhood memories.

Even outdoors, I can smell cigarette smoke from people smoking nearby - to me, it is really obvious, and unpleasant. But it is my issue, and I don't tut or complain if I am out somewhere, and people are smoking.

I remember eating in restaurants when they had smoking areas, and I hated having to smell cigarette smoke when I was eating - it spoiled my meal. However, if a guest at my house was smoking at a BBQ, I might ask them not to smoke until people had finished eating or at least to move away from the food and people who were still eating. I wouldn't rant at anyone. I would think someone who was smoking near people who were still eating was a bit rude and thoughtless, though.

I just feel so sorry for smokers now sometimes.

Blubirdy - are you really likening a smoking habit to being old, disabled, a child, etc etc?

fine, then take the example of the childless family living nextdoor to the family with kids. That takes accommodating. Or the man who likes playing the guitar/trumpet/piano whatever, and his musical instrument free neighbours, or the dog owners who live next door to non-dog owners

Life…. Having neighbours - getting on with people - being sociable is all about give and take and accommodating each other. Is that reallllllllly so hard to understand?

Firstly, none of those things are unhealthy for the people around, nor are they a choice!

Having children is a choice!

Have you seen how many riots other people’s children cause in here?

Buying loads of shopping and taking it on the train or bus is a choice!

it still doesn’t stop me being accommodating by offering my seat to those laden with bags.

I too don't see why non smokers should have to accommodate smoking just on the basis of hospitality. I doubt a smoker would make the effort to create a smoke free environment if the situations were reversed.

Well you doubt wrong as I know plenty of smokers who don’t smoke in their home to accommodate non-smokers. My smoker friend stopped smoking in her car when we started picking eachother up to go to joint events. In fact hardly any smokers I know smoke in their house or car, and the few that do pop out to the balcony/garden for a smoke when we visit.

And I don’t think it’s as much hospitality actually as just plain old tolerance. I thought I was hospitable to buy my guests poundland ashtrays, but allowing them to smoke (period) is just tolerance. Hospitality is nice, but I could live without it – I suppose. Tolerance is a must. I guess my ciggy guests would have managed fine with an empty soup tin or wheelybin as ashtray, but I don’t think they would like me at all if I banned them from smoking IN MY GARDEN! And I can’t blame them, it’s the height of intolerance and I wouldn’t like myself.

People getting their knickers in a knot over someone smoking in their garden?

Ridiculous weirdos.

^^^ THIS ^^^

And I say that as an ex smoker who doesn't touch then these days.

Only on mumsnet, eh readers?

Being a child, or being old, or being disabled isn't a choice.

Yes, there are grey areas. If a relative is blind and has a seeing eye dog, but the host has a bad dog allergy, I would have sympathy for both sides.

I have no sympathy for someone who smokes and has an issue with being nicely asked to go out front to do it instead of subjecting me to it against my will.

Intolerant would be a negative reaction, not inviting them, or banning smoke entirely.

Living next door to someone is in no way the same as setting out guidelines for how you want things conducted in your own home/garden.

I would never expect the neighbours not to smoke outside, but equally I would never expect them to light up in my garden.

bluebird I think we are on the same 'side' here Sorry if that makes my claiming of the charity £5 cheating, I think I misunderstood where you were coming from

You are absolutely right that I cannot avoid air pollution from traffic. I live in London and, while that means I am lucky enough to have a fairly decent public transport system - meaning I can easily do my bit to not add to it too much, it also means I live somewhere with pretty shit air quality. I know that lots of people have to drive because they live somewhere rural, have disabilities or whatever. IMO though, lots and lots of drivers drive far more than necessary in far bigger, more gas-guzzling cars than necessary and it never seems to occur to them at all that they are affecting the health of those around them, including all those babies and toddlers in pushchairs at exhaust level. I am absolutely serious about the hybrid suggestion and one of these days I will be brave enough to start an AIBU about it - it deserves a decent discussion that is not linked to the latest smoking thread, where it will always come across as whataboutery.

Where I was coming from was that it's often the very same people driving massive gas-guzzling git panzas 4 x 4's for stupid 5 min unnecessary journeys who get a fit of the vapours if they spot someone smoking at the end of the next field.

You are also absolutely right about the relative danger of a whiff of outdoor second-hand smoke Vs. car exhaust. For all who doubt this - which do you think will kill you quicker - being in a small room with 3 chain smokers or being in a small room with a car exhaust piped through the window? Hint: smokers are killing themselves a lot slower than those who choose the car exhaust method.

Thank you for your very kind charity offer, I do feel a bit like I'm cheating though so if you want to re-open the offer to anti-smoking drivers that's fine