Calling Social Services or not?

[CrocsAreJustPlainUgly]

Having this discussion with my DP he thinks SS should be called, I however am not sure and think it may be acting hastily.

I have a friend who has a DD she's 2.4 We've been friends for 7+ years had our DC's a week apart they see each other every day nearly. however I've been noticing things steadily going down hill.

Say for instance her DD runs off she'll tell her to come her and she won't she'll carry on running after a couple more times of her saying it she'll go get her whether that means running or walking a few steps when she gets there she'll crouch down to her hight grab both her arms by her shoulders and you can see how tightly she has her and she'll shout Don't run away. She'll then either grab her wrist and take her to the car but she'll be walking so fast her DD's legs will be moving so fast and barely touching the ground and not keeping up or she'll pick her up carry her and chuck/drop her into the car seat and her DD will be crying.

Not going to lie her DD cries an awful lot, and practically at anything and everything if she isn't given a sweet when someone else it, or if someone else has a toy and she wants one, if someone has a drink and she doesn't IYSWIM.. So when she does this she'll push her away, she'll fall over and cry more so she'll push her again and the same will happen. She'll tell her to 'shut up' or to 'go away' sometimes to 'fuck off'

These are only a few things she does sometimes if she's climbing on her, the table, sofa's etc she'll give her what I cam only describes as a 'Gibbs' Slap, Like in NCIS when Gibbs slapps DiNossa on the back of the head.

But she's now started to do these things outside of the home, we went to the beach the other day and her DD didn't want to walk (we'd only been walking 10 minutes) she was texting and her DD was just standing there screaming, crying and shouting at her to pick her up, she stood their for 10 minutes and told her to 'get here now' and of course she didn't so in the end she went over and grabbed her and was pratically dragging her by the wrist, her DD's legs couldn't keep up telling her to 'fucking walk properly'. It's embarrassing and people stair at her and I just took my DD up ahead and was talking to her.

All the while she carried on texting, WWYD? AIBU? Should she be reported? I wouldn't want her to know it was me and I don't think she deserves to have her DD taken off of her and she does love her but I get worried about going out with her in case she does this and people stare cause when they stare she just goes What?! Take a picture or something

I don't know what to do

I know this is about me and how I feel (as it could be a technique you've developed to help you live with what's happened to you), but I hate that she's made you feel subhuman NC (and another for the child you were)

I want to put an angry and sad face, but it'd be about me again and minimising what you had to live with.

This is what you have told people on this thread, Crocs:
CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Fri 18-Jul-14 12:38:12
'I only gave the names and the area they live in.'
'Only' means that is all you told NSPCC.

ItsFab:
'You just gave them extra work when you could have told them exact names and where they live.'
LagoonaBlue:
' Why have you only given them half the info. They need date of birth and address.'
VerityWaves:
'Hang on. So you haven't reported it properly at all then?'

Then you said:
CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Fri 18-Jul-14 19:18:06
'YES I HAVE!! They know her name, his, dobs and where she lives.'

Here you are saying you did not only give names and the area they live in. You are saying they know her name, his name, dobs and where they live. This is different from 'I only gave the names and the area they live in'.

ItsFab pointed that out:
'Less than 7 hours ago you said you had only given their names and area they lived in'

Then you said:
CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Fri 18-Jul-14 19:54:06
'Its I provided a number in case they need more details, they wanted their DoB and asked If I could give their address.'

So we are back to not knowing what exactly you told the NSPCC. Did you give the dobs? Did you give the address? Did you give the names?

Then you added more information:
CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Fri 18-Jul-14 21:21:00
'I said I was a neighbour and for a while I've been hearing her shout at her DD, Seen her in the communal car park etc she has loads of neighbours who have said to her "is everything alright as we heard you yelling at your DD this morning" and she say's "yeah everything fine smile was just the TV we like it loud". '

You did not mention details you posted here, about being dragged along and being hit on the head, pushed to the floor, gripped and called names.

AgentZigZag asked why you did not include these details as they are important:
'...maybe you can call back (the NSPCC if you don't feel comfortable calling SS) and go into more detail? Hearing a neighbour shouting at their child isn't even in the same ballpark as watching a mum do what you've described.'

Then you responded:
CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Sat 19-Jul-14 00:37:04
'I stated that I saw her drag her across the car park etc. everything here.'

You did not post that in your post of 21:21:00 All you talked about in that post was the mother shouting. There is a huge and really important difference between shouting at a child and doing all the shitty things you talked about here.

RandomAXE asked you to call again and give all the information:
'Ring the SS in the morning and give them ALL of information you have.'

CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Sat 19-Jul-14 01:52:44
'I will not be calling anyone in the morning.'

CrocsAreJustPlainUgly Sat 19-Jul-14 02:00:16
'I KNOW what I have done, information I have given. you know very little in regards to this'

The information you have posted here about what you told NSPCC is:
(1) contradictory
(2) given in response to questions from other posters and seemingly only in response to what others have suggested you should have said
(3) not very convincing because none of it was give in straightforward fashion

If you want people to stop asking you for all the information then please give all the information.

If you want people to stop telling to call NSOCC back, can you clarify exactly what you told NSPCC about:
Names?
DOBs?
Address?
The abuse you have witnessed - what details did you tell them?

It's really important because this child is being abused.

Nobody is having a go at you for the heck of it. It's not about you. People want to make sure the child will not be harmed further.

I HAVE TOLD THEM EVERYTHING. THE WHOLE PACKAGE, FROM EVERY SLAP TO EVERY TELLING OFF. HOW ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE IT SAID SO YOU'LL UNDERSTAND

End of! They know!! they have confirmed they have referred to SS! I don't need to tell you once again what information I've given them. You are not SS, you are not the NSPCC. You are some woman on the internet who will In Fact make no difference what so ever. You do not know the child you come on here to tell me to do what I have already done yet fail to grasp that I've already fucking done it. You telling me once again isn't going to make a difference to the fact IVE TOLD THEM!!

So try to understand it. THEY KNOW EVERYTHING I KNOW, THEY ARE REFFERING TO SS I HAVE TOLD THEM WHAT I KNOW!!!!
FFS

I have to admit I am really upset and angry that this little toddler is (has been) suffering like this and people (adults and parents) have been aware of the situation and done nothing up until now. It should not take coming on a forum like MN before action is taken. But, I am very black and white in these situations. This point is not just about you Op, its about anyone in that toddlers life that is aware.

As far as I am concerned anyone that has been aware of this situation and has done nothing (reported the situation) bears some responsibilty for the toddlers continued suffering. There is no minimising that!

I couldn't sleep if I knew a child that was going through this and did nothing.

Crocs, do you not see how dripfeeding the details or changing your tune about what you have told the NSPCC makes it all look as if you have not really told them what you have said you have told them?

Op are you and BackOffMyPhoneIsShiny one and the same person? Sorry getting myself muddled with responses?

I really don't care. I don't need to justify myself to you. I've told you what I've done believe it or not really couldn't care less anymore.

No need for me to continue trying to convince you or anyone else anymore so I don't need to be on this thread

Tbf OP, and without wanting to seem as though I'm piling in, you haven't told them what you know because you pretended to be a neighbour telling them about the crying, all children cry loudly and seemingly forever at some point and it isn't necessarily a concern.

The things you've described though aren't right, they couldn't be passed off as a discipline technique or lots of accidents/ misunderstandings, the mum is saying very loudly to you that she doesn't feel much for her child. She resents her, it's not the mums fault, but by that token it's not the childs either, and she's too small to stand up to an adult.

It's got so bad that she's not bothered who hears and sees her and that must have progressed along quite a bit to be at that point. She needs help right now.

(I've just thought about the little girl crying all the time, you don't reckon she's hurt her somehow and she's in pain do you? I don't like to think about it, but like other posters have said who knows what goes on behind closed doors)

(I've just had another thought about the way you're posting, are you the mum OP?)

Jesus. Please read PP!!!

Her DD has always cried at anything! Ever since her father woke her up continuously/left her to sit in feaces/ in a cot for half the morning whilst he slept. Always cried at everything if she doesn't get a biscuit and someone else does. Everything.
Once again always has. No idea what. Just has!

No I'm not her. don't be so ridiculous.

If I went around slapping my kids in public and refusing help i wouldnt come on mumsnet to report myself

I have read all your previous posts, and they don't add up.

It's not so ridiculous, anyone who knows they're not treating their DC very well are bound to find it difficult admitting it to anyone in RL, posting in AIBU could be asking for the flaming they feel they deserve. Anyway, I wasn't accusing you, only asking. And I can't help thinking that if you believe it to be so bad that it's ridiculous to ask if you're the mum, why haven't you stopped her before now?

Some adults verge on crying if they don't get a biscuit when someone else has one, and why would anyone eat a biscuit in front of a 2.5 YO and not give them one anyway?? That's pretty cruel.

I don't any mature adult that would cry if they didn't get a biscuit. Because if i want a cup of tea and a biscuit whilst the children are eating their dinner I'm entitled to them funnily enough. I wouldn't let my DC stop their dinner to have a Biscuit. If you do then that's your choice! I also would give my DC sweets if i had one and he was about to have a meal! Children need to learn they can't always get what they want and my DC thankfully don't cry for around half an hour if they're told no.

She has admitted she never wanted her DD nothing knew I've said that up. thread or did you miss it? I have said numerous times I've tried to talk to her she won't listen!!! She won't go to groups/ activities/ clubs.

I'm not going through the same point over and over. If your not getting it then hide the thread. I will not! Be responding to anyone who provides the repeated questions that's already been answered

With a 2.5 YO I'd go without the biscuit or sweet if I didn't want them to have one, or eat it where they couldn't see. Because I wouldn't want to hurt them unnecessarily, especially not if it's to randomly teach them that they can't have everything they want.

Why would you eat something in front of a very small child knowing they'd want one but also knowing full well you're not going to let them have it?

Who'd do that? To a two and a half year old??

Poor little mite, I'm not sure you think your friend is completely in the wrong going on some of what you're saying.

Wrt crying --
When a child gets only negative attention smacking, shouted at, clip on the ear, etc and nobody ever praises her for good behaviour, then all she is going to do is what gets the attention and she will only behave if shouted at, smacked or in some way physically beaten down, dragged along or overwhelmed by the parent's superior strength. If crying gets attention (even if it doesn't get the biscuit) then crying is what she is going to do.

The pattern of only getting attention for climbing on tables, jumping on a couch, walking slowly, etc (negative attention) is set when a parent is too lazy, immature and self absorbed or distracted by her phone or caught up in resentment of her lot in life to notice the child being good give consistent attention, especially consistent positive attention/praise for pleasant behaviour.

I have seen children treated this way growing up and none of them ended well. All got involved in drugs/alcoholism and promiscuity and wasted decades of their lives dealing with the legacy of this kind of brutish parenting.

When I was reading your post, I initially thought you were jumping the gun, but the more you post, the more concerned I am getting. And the more angry at you I am getting!

This is a woman who takes her stress out on her dc. At the moment she slaps her, pushes her & shouts at her.

What about the time she gets SO stressed that she thumps her, shakes her, pushes her down the stairs?

Does she need to end up in hospital on life support for you to act?

Stay child focused. What will happen if this continues? Will it get better (doubtful). The child is demanding & crying all the time because her needs aren't being met. Yes, she is fed, dressed, washed, but her emotional needs are being neglected. In those instances, a slap from mum is contact, yelling from mum is contact & in a emotionally deprived state, THAT is better then nothing.

This isn't going to get better. As the child gets older, she will 'push' her mother more & more & her mother will get more & more stressed & possibly keep overstepping those boundaries.

Can you live with that, op?

You do not know the child you come on here to tell me to do what I have already done yet fail to grasp that I've already fucking done it. No need to swear at those who are offering the advice YOU asked for.

I think people are struggling op, because are contracting yourself.

Should I call SS v I have called NSPCC

I gave them the area they live in v I gave them names, DoBs & address

Which is it?

[This is a diversion, but having a biscuit while they have to eat their tea because you are entitled to isn't a way of showing authority to children. It's a way of putting them in their place and telling them that when they get big they too can make others feel small with gestures like eating things they forbid to others. Authority and respect come from leading by example. You don't gain authority or respect by showing your children that being bigger and stronger means you can do whatever you feel like. No mature adult would eat a biscuit in front of children who had to sit and eat their tea and couldn't have one.]

A woman abusing her daughter is your "friend"?! Time for some new friends, I think.

Good to see you've contacted the NSPCC, anyway.

I am getting more and more frustrated. It may well be because I can empathise with the toddler having grown up in a violent home before my mother had the courage to leave.

I don't get you Op. On one hand you seem very willing to out a man having an affair with your mother to his wife because she is blowing thousands on him, yet you don't seem to have the same conviction in protecting an abused child. I don't get it!

Constant whining can be indicative of reactive attachment disorder in toddlers. This can be due to lack of bonding from conception to three years of age. The whining and crying may be annoying the friend, however her lack of empathy and attachment to her daughter may actually be causing the problem. No impulse control. Destructive behaviour. Unusual speech patterns, unusual eating patterns, lack of eye contact, incessant chatter are other symptoms some of which may be present.

It's important that little girl gets help, or her ability to develop may be severely impaired.

It is good that you care enough to report to social services/child line.

You are all banging your heads against a brick wall. I'm probably going to get sworn at but I don't actually believe the op has reported and if she has, I don't think has given the information needed.

I completely agree with the pp who described her son's life. Dd has never been shouted at, handled roughly or pushed away when she cries. That is normal, she is a baby. It's quite sad that this thread even had to exist, that the question needed to be asked.

I hope for the little girls sake that I'm wrong about the op, and that someone will help her.

NC I send you all the hugs in the world, you are most definitely not subhuman.

Of course the child cries all the time. Her life is an absolute misery.
Wouldn't you fucking cry all day if all you ever encountered was loathing and violence?

See other thread. I am calling a spade a spade :/

What other thread wannabe?

Yes you are all banging your head against a brick will!!!

Seeing as she's just told me two people have been Round asking questions about her DD and if she was coping. She said she was fine loves her DD, they must be confused or have the wrong person.

So to all of you that are STILL coming on here telling me to call SS they've been round it

What other thread? I would like to work out what's going on as this thread has become very upsetting.

Poor little thing, unprotected and unhelped.

Read my pp!!!! Seriously she IS being helped