To not want to see SIL ever again!!!

[han3459]

My SIL and I have always differed completely on how we raise our DDs. Both of our eldest girls are 12 and it's become a constant issue between us.

Whilst SIL is a controlling psycho stricter parent (in my opinion), I am much more relaxed with my DD. For example, I let my DD wear some make up, paint her nails, has two ear piercings and occasionally will go on trips to town with her friends. I try to let my DD have some independence by letting her make decisions such as what to wear (within reason), choosing the activities she wants to participate in, and how to spend her pocket money.

SIL totally disagrees with most of these and has made this known on many occasions. She refuses to let DD go anywhere without adult supervision, won't let her wear anything she doesn't like and is totally anti any kind of make up/hair straightening etc. I do feel sorry for my DN as she is constantly not allowed to do things my DD can do, which must be hard for her.

I totally understand people have different ways of raising their children and DD is respectful of different rules in other people's houses. However, my SIL is constantly criticizing me and my DD in front of us about parenting which drives me insane.

Lately things have got much worse. A few weeks ago, SIL and BIL took DN and DD out for the day. When they stopped at a restaurant, SIL repeatedly told off DD for eating with her cutlery the wrong way round and forced her to use them the other way. I could not care less which way she uses them as long as she doesn't use her fingers and was furious as DD said she struggled to eat her meal. When I rang SIL about this, she said it was my fault for not teaching her proper social etiquette.

The last straw was a few days ago. SIL and DN came over as we were planning a family trip out. My DD was wearing a knee length dress with some mid calf length boots. It was a very cute little outfit in my opinion. However, SIL instantly made her opinion that it was inappropriate and asked my DD to change because she didn't want her daughter to thing it was an acceptable way to dress.

This led to an absolutely huge row, with SIL storming out after I refused to tell DD to change. I am so sick of having to put up with the constant judgement from her and don't think it's fair on my DD to be criticized all the time. I do feel for my DN but AIBU to stop seeing SIL so often??? All it causes is stress

All the fork angst.

Bit petite bourgeoisie innit?

Table manners and politeness - good

Getting all bent out of shape about the 'correct' way to hold a bit of cutlery - wank

Couldn't have put it better myself Devere...

Lossapops - debretts says you're right

And, the same applies to artisan loaves.

Why oh why.

Yesss, see, holding my knife and fork wrong hasn't held me back in the slightest.

YANBU

You can associate with whomever you like.

If you no longer want to see your SIL, then don't.

I wouldn't be at all keen on seeing anyone who constantly picked apart my parenting.

I'd still see her but I'd take a big step backwards. I would see her because of your DDs relationship with her cousin. I would disengage and smile and nod. IYSWIM
There is no point rowing with her as she will never change.

For all the people getting angsty about etiquette and the "correct" way to use cutlery, etiquette evolves and is not set in stone. It won't be that long before it changes.

Both DS and I use our knives in our left hands, DP and DD in the "correct" manner. I can't hold a knife properly in my right hand, so I can't be bothered to try. However, that doesn't mean that I eat slovenly, and both DCs have been taught to eat neatly, no mess, etc, and when they were small, they were complimented by strangers for their table manners.

I actually find it amusing that parents spend time teaching babies to use forks in their right hands, only to confuse them by insisting they swap the fork to the left hand when knives are introduced.

Lossapops, you don't know if your cutlery positioning has held you back or not! I'd have been all smiley to your face and silently seethed "fucking peasant" at the sight of badly held cutlery, abuses of bread rolls etc.
And people who tip the soup bowl the wrong way! Stab!

Luckily for me I've never been offered an artisan loaf and butter at interview stage so I have thus far remained undetected.

I don't cut bread roll,I rip off bite sized bit
But I had posh auntie and her instruction was to cut roll,butter it,keep 2halves and bite

There is no right or wrong hand with which to hold cutlery in and I dont give a flying fuck what the pearl clutchers or indeed debretts might think. it is entirely natural for most left handers like myself and indeed some right handers too to hold a knife in the left hand. By suggesting what is natural to us is somehow wrong and to prefer us to be uncomfortable simply to follow outdated traditions is not only the height of bad manners itself but is incredibly ignorant.

To force a child to use a hand that they find unnatural could be damaging. You may as well try to force gay people to be straight. I can't believe people can be so ridiculous in this day and age. Lets ask a billion Chinese shall we about left and right handed chopsticks ffs.

YANBU. Would like to hear the other side of the story.

You should be teaching your child correct table manners, it's unfair on your DD not to IMO.

Innogen I'm left handed and was taught to do it the correct way round.. I couldnt care less what other people do but I would teach my DC to do it this way, not because I'm a hysterical pearl clutcher but because I think that correct etiquette is a useful social skill.

damaging though? If they've been taught how to use a knife and fork properly from the beginning, I really don't see how this will be damaging.

Getting back to the point. I think YAprobablyNBU but your and your SIL's parenting styles are never going to meet. All the while one or the other of you wants to get judgy and angsty about that in public instead of shrugging and letting the other get on with it you have got trouble, stress and aggravation. Therefore avoiding the situation seems like a sensible approach for all involved. FWIW I have DS of similar age and we're just getting into independent travel.I haven't been involved in clothes choice for years. And so far make up and piercing haven't been an issue!

Mind you I'm worried about cutlery. The whole family (except DM) use hands interchangeably, sometimes even swapping halfway through a dish. I knew it was odd but no idea it was a crippling social faux pas that will see me banished to the far side of the universe at some point.

To be honest I would (talking to your DH or DB whichever it is) tell your SIL in private that if you are to socialise with her and DN again, you both need to stop criticising the others parenting in front of DD (and DN).

As this is the key thing. From your post it is mainly her, but I would probably say both just to be diplomatic.
By criticising and insisting things are done in her way, she is showing a lack of respect for you and your decisions. This is far more damaging than your faults can be. She should instead be teaching her child that "other families do things differently, but this is how we do it".

I'm not sure how old your DD is BTW, but I would be a bit shocked by the multiple piercings. none of the rest sounds that bad, but then I wouldn't take a child to a very very posh restaurant, and pretty much anywhere else they don't care as long as you use the cutlery. And they don't routinely chuck out American's who tend to have a very different etiquette.

toottootoffwego Gee, thanks! Anyway, I'm where I want to be in life, so in my mind, I've not been held back at all.

I can't see how allowing your child to eat with their cutlery in the opposite hands to the majority is poor parenting, any more than allowing your child to write with their left hand is.

On the other hand, not allowing a 12 year old to go into town unsupervised is, I feel, very poor parenting, unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I had no idea so many people cared about how I hold my cutlery...... I hold them the standard way afaik but I am guilty of holding my pen very oddly when I write (sort of in a clenched fist).

When growing up my parents and teachers got very concerned about this periodically and told me I'd never get anywhere in life unless I corrected the 'issue'. I now have two degrees and work in a fairly technical field. I hold my pen just the same as I ever have done. This (and the legendary illegibility of doctor handwriting) makes me suspect that the cutlery debate is a big pile of bobbins

My Grandma was a stickler for holding the cutlery in the right hands.

The first thing I used to do was switch them around. My Grandma was very 'proper' and my mum would cringe when I switched them.

I am actually very cack handed though and I simply can't eat holding a fork in my left hand. Apart from my grandma who is long dead I don't know anyone irl who holds their cutlery in the 'right hands'.

And you've not been stabbed yet lozza so it's all good.

I work in a profession where table manners are important. To the extent that a few years ago, one of my colleagues was told by her boss to break her roll, tear it into small pieces and butter each bit individually and not to cut it in half and butter it. She was also told she was eating soup incorrectly. She was mortified.

This thread has really cheered me up. Cutlery on aibu is a bit of a guaranteed fun read.
Truly. The clamouring to be identified as one from a superior class is hilarious.

Your SIL is out of order to make so many judgemental comments.
I have a sneaking suspicion (possibly unfounded) that you offer similar judgements about her dd that she's only too aware of.
I'd ease up a bit, spend less time with them and be a bit less available.

Btw. Nobody important gives a shit which hand you hold your knife in. I promise.

I would love to hear you SIL's version of this story...