To not want to see SIL ever again!!!

[han3459]

My SIL and I have always differed completely on how we raise our DDs. Both of our eldest girls are 12 and it's become a constant issue between us.

Whilst SIL is a controlling psycho stricter parent (in my opinion), I am much more relaxed with my DD. For example, I let my DD wear some make up, paint her nails, has two ear piercings and occasionally will go on trips to town with her friends. I try to let my DD have some independence by letting her make decisions such as what to wear (within reason), choosing the activities she wants to participate in, and how to spend her pocket money.

SIL totally disagrees with most of these and has made this known on many occasions. She refuses to let DD go anywhere without adult supervision, won't let her wear anything she doesn't like and is totally anti any kind of make up/hair straightening etc. I do feel sorry for my DN as she is constantly not allowed to do things my DD can do, which must be hard for her.

I totally understand people have different ways of raising their children and DD is respectful of different rules in other people's houses. However, my SIL is constantly criticizing me and my DD in front of us about parenting which drives me insane.

Lately things have got much worse. A few weeks ago, SIL and BIL took DN and DD out for the day. When they stopped at a restaurant, SIL repeatedly told off DD for eating with her cutlery the wrong way round and forced her to use them the other way. I could not care less which way she uses them as long as she doesn't use her fingers and was furious as DD said she struggled to eat her meal. When I rang SIL about this, she said it was my fault for not teaching her proper social etiquette.

The last straw was a few days ago. SIL and DN came over as we were planning a family trip out. My DD was wearing a knee length dress with some mid calf length boots. It was a very cute little outfit in my opinion. However, SIL instantly made her opinion that it was inappropriate and asked my DD to change because she didn't want her daughter to thing it was an acceptable way to dress.

This led to an absolutely huge row, with SIL storming out after I refused to tell DD to change. I am so sick of having to put up with the constant judgement from her and don't think it's fair on my DD to be criticized all the time. I do feel for my DN but AIBU to stop seeing SIL so often??? All it causes is stress

"she sounds sensible"

I was thinking she sounds like a nightmare.

Why does everyone keep saying that left handed people hold their cutlery this way?
I am left handed, so is my Dad, so is my brother, none of us do this. It is not an automatic left handed thing.

My brothers are both left handed and both hold their knife and fork "the other way round..."

So - your SIL is really keen on table manners and social etiquette.

Maybe you could point out that (even though you accept that you have different methods) constantly criticising the way someone else brings up their children is really appallingly bad manners.

This is one of those alternative MN reality threads.

This isn't about the OP's parenting choices. It's about her SIL being judgy and rude about the OP's parenting choices.

YANBU to avoid someone who criticises your DD on her clothes, tables manners, etc, and tells both of you that how she is dressed for an outing displays such dodgy morality that her own DD may be unwittingly infected by your DD's outfit. It's insulting on a lot of levels.

Stop seeing her unless it's necessary.

Yes and so do some right handed people by the sound of it. My point is that if someone does this it doesn't automatically mean they are left handed.

I freely admit that I can be quite uptight sometimes where manners and etiquette are concerned, but I am staggered at some of the responses about the cutlery. It is going back to the days when it was wrong to be left handed. I thought we had moved on since those days but hey this is mumsnet after all.
As for the other stuff I am with you OP, my DD had her ears peirced just as she left year 6, she has been going to town with her friends on the bus for a couple of years now and her outfit sounds lovely. Your SIL is doing her DD no favours, they nwed to bw showing a bit of independence at this age.
Depending on how well the girls get on I would keep a bit of a distance for a while.

Interesting that the focus is predominantly on how one holds a knife and fork.

While we are at it, is there a right/wrong way to drink soup from a bowl? Would I be thrown from the table if I put bowl to mouth and drank?

What about drinking tea from a teacup? Is it a cardinal (social) sin if I do not raise my pinky?

Since when has knee length become short? School skirts are shorter than that.

I've sent DD (9) off to a party today wearing an all-in-one shorts thing that comes about 3 inches below her bum. All the girls were in shorts and all showing a damn sight more flesh than a girl in a knee length dress and boots. Entirely appropriate for this weather.

I feel your pain op. we have similar issues in our family and a lot of teeth gritting has to be done. I can't stand the disapproval others have for parenting choices that are not their own. It smacks of a lack of imagination to see that sometimes, things can be done differently.

God I must be really lax then since DD (7) has had her ears pierced since she was 6 (at her request), she's currently running around in a lovely A-line knee length sundress and calf length biker boots with no tights!

I have taught both of my kids how to use cutlery "properly" but DS is dyspraxic and finds it easier to use it the "wrong" way. Seeing as he has a tendancy to hold his fork in a fist when it's in his left hand, I see no problem with him using his right hand properly so that he can eat without looking like he's trying to stab his food to death. DD appears to be ambidexterous to a degree, so as long as she manages to keep her food in her mouth and not look like she's trying to fly, I don't care which hand she uses. Shock, horror, she still can't use a knife properly because she has weak wrists, but we're working on it.

Most of the kids in my town are out in the town centre independently by 12, as was DS (17), because it's a small town and there isn't much else for them to do.

Terrible pictures, but really, is showing that much flesh an issue on a 12 year old?

Oh slightly better pic, but the boots are too long I think.

I think disliking SIL and her parenting style is fine. Commenting on it in her presence or to other members of the family where it might get back to her would not be fine.

She is being rude in her criticism of your choices, especially with the outfit. I think it'd be sensible to limit your contact with her.

I think on the whole, yabu.

Has anyone actually explained what it is about the sight of knife and fork in opposite hands that sends people into frothing hysterics?

It's not SILs place to correct her manners unless she was eating like an animal when they were out or what to wear.

I really cannot find it within myself to care what hands people use.

Dd doesn't have pierced ears, but wears reasonably fashionable (johnnie b type of stuff) clothes. She definitely holds her knife and fork correctly!

But that didn't stop one mother banning her dd from fraternising with dd because she didn't want her dd "to grow up too fast". I was rather taken aback. This girl has never been to a sleepover (they are 10/11), has never been to London (corrupting, apparently) and is not allowed to listen to any pop music (eg Taylor Swift).

It made me feel really bad when this women said this.

I just wrote a long eloquent post and my phone ate it!

I'm reading this thread OP.

I think all of the things you have mentioned are fine at 12. You are teaching your DD to become independant and make choices for herself.
The cutlery thing I really cannot understand. According to some I must have been silently judged all my life..how very dare I!

I completely agree that the height of bad manners is to comment on someone elses...do people really care that much??

I need a wee lie down!

What exactly was she objecting to about the outfit? If it was a knee length dress, what's to object to? Boots a tad hot but then you didn't say it was recent (I think). Does she object to girls in boots? Too 'sexy'? Mystified.

Frankly you're both immature,with an inability to not squabble or niggle each other
Shes not a bad mother for her choices,nor are you.but her arguments,and digs cross the line
So can you both mutually agree to not squabble?its appalling two adults cant keep it cordial

I've seen threads before with this weird snobbery about table etiquette. It's strange that some people so vociferously defend their prejudice in this respect because it's nothing more than looking down on people and considering them inferior.

The important aspect of table manners is consideration for others. So not burping or chewing loudly or talking with mouth full or elbowing fellow diners. That's what actually matters in any dining situation.

Holding your knife and fork comfortably doesn't impinge on anyone's enjoyment. The behaviour that may impinge on this is scorning and holding in contempt the person doing so. That is the height of bad manners and narrow-minded rigidity. In this case the SIL is guilty of that for criticising the girl - she showed herself to be far more crass and uncouth than her niece.

I wouldn't think of anyone as a 'moron' for holding their fork in their right hand. I would think considerably less of anyone criticising someone else for doing so. Particularly as it's been pointed out that people with dyspraxia, for example, may find it easier.

I meant to say considering them socially inferior.

YABU to have such a reaction to your SIL's over-reaction - that makes you almost as bad as her, I think, in that respect.

Her criticisms, both implied and spoken, make her very ill-mannered and without social grace - which she would doubtless be shocked to hear, given her own feelings about using knives and forks in the "correct" hand!

I was brought up to always use knife in R, fork in L hand - but these days we eat quite a lot of fork-only meals and I'm buggered if I'm going to use my L hand for it! No one ever bats an eyelid, even my dear Dad, who was the Strictest of Table Manner Gorgons (yes I know they were female but so what)

As to what you let your 12yo do - well, my Dad would probably have had a bit of a fit about the make up and I never wanted piercings anyway, but the rest seem fine at that age. I can't understand what she was getting so aerated about re. the boots and dress - if it had been a knicker-skimmer dress, then maybe! - but kneelength? Mad.

I think all these petty little things have built up to a point where you're completely sick of them - so next time you see her (and you will) just tell her straight that you think she is rude and mannerless to be so critical of your DD and your parenting in front of the children, and just exactly what sort of example does she think she is setting her DD? See if that shuts her up.

Well the most basic rule of etiquette (and manners really) is not to make rude comments when you're a guest in someone else's house, or when you are the host either. Your SIL sounds incredibly rude, I would point this out to her. Your daughter may lack some finer points of etiquette regarding cutlery (and tbh I would show the polite way to use a knife and fork- this is something that you may not care about but could come back to haunt her in later years). Trying to dictate your dd's clothing and appearance however is way over the line of rude behavior. Take the high road, tell your SIL that you will not tolerate such rude behavior and if she cannot control herself then you won't be seeing anything of her. Whatever she may think of your parenting style, it's not for her to poudly and continually criticize.