To not want to see SIL ever again!!!

[han3459]

My SIL and I have always differed completely on how we raise our DDs. Both of our eldest girls are 12 and it's become a constant issue between us.

Whilst SIL is a controlling psycho stricter parent (in my opinion), I am much more relaxed with my DD. For example, I let my DD wear some make up, paint her nails, has two ear piercings and occasionally will go on trips to town with her friends. I try to let my DD have some independence by letting her make decisions such as what to wear (within reason), choosing the activities she wants to participate in, and how to spend her pocket money.

SIL totally disagrees with most of these and has made this known on many occasions. She refuses to let DD go anywhere without adult supervision, won't let her wear anything she doesn't like and is totally anti any kind of make up/hair straightening etc. I do feel sorry for my DN as she is constantly not allowed to do things my DD can do, which must be hard for her.

I totally understand people have different ways of raising their children and DD is respectful of different rules in other people's houses. However, my SIL is constantly criticizing me and my DD in front of us about parenting which drives me insane.

Lately things have got much worse. A few weeks ago, SIL and BIL took DN and DD out for the day. When they stopped at a restaurant, SIL repeatedly told off DD for eating with her cutlery the wrong way round and forced her to use them the other way. I could not care less which way she uses them as long as she doesn't use her fingers and was furious as DD said she struggled to eat her meal. When I rang SIL about this, she said it was my fault for not teaching her proper social etiquette.

The last straw was a few days ago. SIL and DN came over as we were planning a family trip out. My DD was wearing a knee length dress with some mid calf length boots. It was a very cute little outfit in my opinion. However, SIL instantly made her opinion that it was inappropriate and asked my DD to change because she didn't want her daughter to thing it was an acceptable way to dress.

This led to an absolutely huge row, with SIL storming out after I refused to tell DD to change. I am so sick of having to put up with the constant judgement from her and don't think it's fair on my DD to be criticized all the time. I do feel for my DN but AIBU to stop seeing SIL so often??? All it causes is stress

SallyMcgally
"I actually think that good manners entail making sure that you're not making people feel bad/ awkward/ uncomfortable by, for example, seeing fit to comment on how they hold their cutlery. It's bad manners to comment about other people in my view."

This. I think the OPs SIL is quite rude for even mentioning it. Something are disgusting (like eating with your mouth open) but swapping the cutlery is a non-issue and it plain nasty to try and make somebody feel bad about it.

I have an eleven year old daughter.

She has her ears pierced. She occasionally wears a little make up. She occasionally wears nail varnish. She dresses the way she feels comfortable (this appears to be in denim hot pants and cropped tops most of the time at moment).

She eats the conventional way (amazingly as dh has always eaten the American way).

She is going to spend the summer learning how to get the bus from our town to a bigger town for school in the autumn 10 miles away and two buses.

I do not believe any of this is unusual at her age.

Shocked at some of the views on this thread. Op I get where you are coming from but if the cousins are friendly I would try to persevere.

What a lot of pearl clutching on this thread!

OP, my twelve year old daughter wears a bit of makeup, has hair curlers (her hair is dead straight), has her ears pierced, chooses her own clothes and footwear (very stylish), goes out with her friends (on a bus and everything!), goes to the cinema etc.

She is street wise, smart, polite, sociable and friendly.

And no-one has ever commented on the fact she eats with her knife in her left hand - she finds it more comfortable.

And none of my friends or family have ever commented that I am a bad parent - quite the opposite in fact. But then, I don't comment on how they choose to bring up their children either.

When my eldest was 5 we went out for a meal (DH, DD who was 3, DD and I) with one of our oldest friends and her new chap. She is older than us, and has fairly strict ideas of good behaviour. DS was doing his best to eat with a knife and fork and sit quietly - we were quite pleased with him as this was unusual at the time! She however launched into a lecture of how he really must learn to use the knife and fork in the correct hands or he'd never get a job or be invited out to dinner anywhere nice. H and I just looked at her in silence for a moment until DD threw juice all over the floor and I think that sort of distracted her.

dances I'm with you.
DD is nearly 17 now but at 12 she had her ears pierced twice (since healed, apparently too much faff ), she'd go into town a bus ride away with friends, she wore a little makeup, sometimes she'd eat without a knife
None of this changes the fact she turned into a beautiful, intelligent young lady with her head on straight.

I'm not sure what people envisage is going to happen to a 12 year old with pierced ears and makeup but as a child who was smothered by my Mother and stopped from doing anything like that I can tell you I rebelled big time and wasn't back on track until I was 19.

Some battles aren't worth having and which way a kid holds a knife and fork isn't really one of them.

With regards to feeling sorry for my DN, I meant this more with the activities she is allowed to take part in, not about the make up. For example, DN was invited on a trip with DD and some of her friends to go to town and then the cinema but SIL said she was not allowed to go because no adults would be there so she missed out.

Quite surprised at how few people think it is important to hold your knife and fork a certain way. It's just the way I was brought up, my parents told me it was important so I took that on board. I don't see it as BAD MANNERS, just incorrect in the way you wouldn't high five someone in a business meeting for example, you would shake their hand. You're not being rude by high fiving or hurting anyone but its just not the done thing and to not get it right would be a negative thing.

I had a very boring upbringing but even I was allowed to wear make-up when I met my friends in town aged 13 and wear the clothes I chose.

The thing is- surely the SIL's dd has friends who do things differently too, or does she veto all her friends too.

If someone told me my dd was inappropriately dressed or ate rudely, I would avoid them like the plague, but they wouldn't, I can't imagine how that conversation would go. Everyone I know is more live and let live and bitches behind each other's backs if they feel the need to comment.

rose202

No the outfit was entirely fine for the day, no activities where a dress would be unsuitable. SIL didn't approve of the dress/boots combo because she believed it was inappropriate. She said she didn't want DN to think it was ok to dress that way. I thought the outfit looked lovely and very trendy, the dress wasn't short but I think she didn't like the fact DD had bare legs with the boots

MoRaw, that is what happened with my cousin and I. There's less than a year between us and neither of us have sisters so you'd have thought we might be close, but by the age of 8/9 we were already 'enemies' because of how our mums (who are sisters) acted about us, as if we were there for scoring points on who is cleverest/prettiest/'best' at whatever. I'm still not sure, 20yrs later, if we aren't friendly because we just wouldn't have been friends anyway, or if it was down to how our mums were - and still are, as shown by the competitions friendly chats over whose daughter had the best degree in the most useful subject, who's working for what company and earning what and living where and getting married and to whom etc etc etc! Unbelievable, but it's still true. Neither of us yet have children but can you imagine the carnage there...

So OP, whilst I think YANBU from your post, the most important thing is to try not to affect the relationship between the girls. How you manage that, if your SIL is half as bad as she sounds...

How is she your SiL? Husband's sister? Your brother's wife? Another way?

YANBU
There are so many different parenting styles that all produce happy socially-responsible adults.

I don't quite understand the need to keep a twelve-year-old girl under adult supervision at all times sounds very Victorian. I had to do go into town alone to do the family shopping from the age of eleven and my daughter took the city bus to school alone from the age of seven. I believe that being streetwise is a very useful skill.

All the other stuff is cosmetic. The only important thing, IMHO, is that our dds have good values, respecting themselves and other people.

I have to say I would be more in agreement with your sil but its not fair of her to be so horrid to you its probably best you both distance yourselves from one another.

I think your SIL needs to wind her neck in and at the very least stop criticising your DD when you're not there, as in the cutlery incident.

On the cutlery thing, my sister has always eaten like this too (she is an odd mixture of left- and right-handed, doing different things different handedly). But she eats 'properly' as in holds the knife and fork well, cuts neatly and eats neatly. It has honestly never been considered a massive breach of etiquette or affront to society.

She sounds horrible, I wouldn't bother with her any mor.

Boots in this weather? She must have been boiling hot.

I do think your SIL is overstepping the mark though. She can think whatever she likes but it is very rude to voice opinions on such things. Maybe she's insecure about her own parenting so takes it out on you?

If she gets on your tits then just avoid her til she gets the picture. She sounds all kinds of lame. Not because her choices but because she has fucking cheek to tell your daughter what to do. Arsehole.

Aside from any differences in parenting, because we all do things differently, your sil has no right whatsoever to try and dictate what your dd wears. Especially considering calf length boots and a knee length dress isn't exactly hot pants and a crop top.

Sorry, I'm with your SIL on this one! She sounds sensible.To be fair to her, aren't you doing exactly the same thing - criticising HER parenting? Calling her a controlling psycho, that you feel sorry for her daughter etc.
She's just not as lax in her parenting style as you.Doesn't mean she's a controlling psycho.
I'm also another one who wonders how you get to the age of 12 and not know how to hold a knife and fork properly (SN excluded, of course.)
Knee high boots and short skirts as well does sound quite grown up for a pre-teen as well, it doesn't sound cute and girl like.
I also wouldn't feel sorry for her just because she doesn't wear make-up - not everyone sees the need for it!

Mike, isn't the difference that the OP is saying those things on an anonymous forum to blow off steam, whereas her SIL tries to impose her views on the OP and her DD in real life?

Also, on the cutlery thing, the OP says her DD DOES hold them properly, just the opposite way round to some or most people.

How has the OP's dd's calf length boots and knee length dress now become a short skirt and knee high boots?

How has the OP's dd's calf length boots and knee length dress now become a short skirt and knee high boots?

Knew somebody would pick up on the boot length calf length boots are still high boots - with a knee length dress they'll be pretty high!

My understanding is that the DD is ambidextrous to some degree and holds her knife and fork as a leftie.

Is that not correct?

I know quite a few people who are ambidextrous. Does SIL criticise all left handed people and think they should hold cutlery the "right" way round?

I'm also another one who wonders how you get to the age of 12 and not know how to hold a knife and fork properly

There's a difference between KNOWING how to hold cutlery properly, and finding it easier a different way.

I have gradually slipped into a much more relaxed dining style - fork in right hand, using it concave way round rather than convex etc