to wonder how one could still be a member of the Catholic Church

[winkywinkola]

or any church that has a history of such utter cruelty?

I'm just listening to Radio 4's programme on the mass graves found in Ireland.

I read today that the Pope made some unofficial mention of 2% of priests being paedophiles. So what?

Is there any other institution that constantly ducks and dives to avoid responsibility for the sheer brutality of its actions?

I am aghast.

My sil is ardently Catholic. She and her dd go to church 4 times at the weekend. I've never discussed this with her but I am keen to know how modern Catholics - or those of other religions - reconcile their religion with such seemingly cruel institution.

Provocative? Perhaps.

There's cruelty everywhere ...

By judging a religion on the teachings not the followers?

I think the OP's point is the institutionalised cruelty and abuse within the Catholic Church, rather than random incidents found anywhere and everywhere.

I don't understand it either, OP - my DM still goes every week. I can't even talk about it with her

I wonder how one could be a member of any church, but I'm none the wiser.

If you can believe in God and such like, you can find a way to believe around the terrible things that go on. It's all fantasy, wishful thinking and denial of any reality/evidence/logic.

It takes some serious cognitive dissonance IMO.

There is cruelty everywhere. Yes.

But those mother and baby homes were in the name of religion.

Paedophile priests have been actively hidden and or not prosecuted for countless rapes of children.

How can this be? It seems to me this cruelty happened as part of the Church.

It's still going on. There are still known paedophile priests. The Pope himself said so.

And there would seem to be a huge gap between the teachings and the followers' behaviour. A gap that is not apparently even considered by this particular Church.

I couldn't be part of such a Church.

Because those cruel bastards who perpetrate such horrible acts don't represent the rest of us.

There's nothing like tarring everyone with the same brush is there.

I'm not catholic or even Christian but my DH is.

I have met so many Catholics who have a genuine desire to be kind and to help those in need and do good works.

I imagine that should I be a catholic and questioning myself and have heard about these disgusting,historical crimes that I would still think that the people I knew did good works and helped and were kind and that I would be most able to do my but to ensure that it didn't happen again by remaining a catholic.

yanbu

I don't think it's tarring everyone with the same brush. We're not talking about rogue Priests/Nuns, the abuse in the Catholic Church was known about/covered up by Popes. Isn't the Pope the head of the Catholic Church? So it's being part of a religion where the head supports paedophiles.

Bunbaker, you've missed the point.

Who said all Catholics are the same? Nobody.

All that is being asked is that given the utter evil perpetrated by important members of that Church, sometimes in the name of the Church, and the subsequent inaction of that Church unless forced to face the problem, how can one still want to be part of it?

Nothing to do with tarring with he same brush at all.

So if there is a Westminster paedophile ring is it your suggestion that we do away with our current form of government and all refuse to take part in elections?

Heinous crimes have been committed and covered up by a church that thought it was untouchable. This is not acceptable to Catholics but it doesn't stop us being catholic because we still believe the teachings.

Catholicism has fundamental differences to most other branches of Christianity so it isn't as easy as crossing the street and starting to attend another church

And I don't think these crimes are all historical at all. There are 8,000 paedophile priests according to the Pope.

I am a Catholic and struggle with my conscience at times on the institutional awfulness of the church. That being said there are many good works done by people of faith. Locally the St Vincent de Paul society helps people very practically, eg train tickets and money for the electricity meter on this Friday just gone, CAFOD works well in overseas development....many many such examples just like Calloh said.

I also have a need for a spiritual space, life can be hard and prayers are helpful to me.

I often disagree with my priest he is a bit fundamentalist (an Anglican convert).

Most Catholics (there will be some who think it's all lies) are repulsed by the revelations of the past couple of decades. They can keep their faith while at the same time acknowledging the horrific wrongdoings of the church.

The Irish mass graves are horrendously sad but it's as much to do with parents rejecting pregnant daughters as it is to do with Catholic institutions. It was a societal problem.

Thats the same as saying how can anyone be Muslim because if 9/11. Or how can anyone support the bbc because of jimmy saville.

A minority of evil people do not represent everyone. And if you believe there isn't corruption in any large organisation which is hurtful to others, I strongly believe you would be wrong.

I'm a (col)lapsed Catholic and reject a lot of its teachings, I disagree with it fundamentally on so many issues, abortion/birth control/homosexuality etc. etc but my Mum is a committed Catholic who is a lovely, tolerant person who has just been to her first civil partnership.

Not all Catholics are blinkered idiots.

Agree with lucked

You don't stop believing the teachings if you have faith

My mum was an orphan in a Liverpool magdalene orphanage...staunch catholic who never lost her faith

Atheist here, although I am confirmed in the catholic faith, I just don't believe in any of it

Are you aware that there is no leaving the church? The figures for catholics in the world include those that are not practicing - there was an opt out but that loop hole was closed because so many used it. So there are lots of us officially part of the church but not....

That's sort of not the point though. I am Irish and brought up catholic. I no longer practice. I am an atheist and strongly feel that the church is anti-women and children and have done for many years. There are good catholics though who still have their faith and belief whilst realising that the church "needs work". I think the Roman Catholic Church is rotten to the core but not everyone feels the same and people can still believe in god etc and hopefully will get the church that they deserve.

Yes completely.

There is a huge gap between the teaching and SOME of the followers' behaviour. I am still part of the Catholic church and I do feel conflicted and have moments where I want to leave but what makes me stay are the priests I have known who give away the actual coats from their backs to homeless people who call at their door, who get arrested protesting against nuclear arms, for the ones who helped to get third world debt cancelled, the ones who struggled against apartheid, the ones who live alongside the shanty town families who have been moved from their homes to make way for the world cup,, for the, perhaps surprisingly, feminist education I got at my Catholic girls school, for Dorothy Stang, for Oscar Romero, for Mother Teresa, for Denis Hurley, for Pax Christi, for CAFOD.

The child abuse and its cover up was and is shameful but there is an awful lot of good in the church too and plenty of people, like me, who are trying to build a betterone for the future.

Squoosh - it was only a 'societal problem' because of the teachings of the Catholic Church and the promise of hellfire for those who didn't adhere.