to wonder how one could still be a member of the Catholic Church

[winkywinkola]

or any church that has a history of such utter cruelty?

I'm just listening to Radio 4's programme on the mass graves found in Ireland.

I read today that the Pope made some unofficial mention of 2% of priests being paedophiles. So what?

Is there any other institution that constantly ducks and dives to avoid responsibility for the sheer brutality of its actions?

I am aghast.

My sil is ardently Catholic. She and her dd go to church 4 times at the weekend. I've never discussed this with her but I am keen to know how modern Catholics - or those of other religions - reconcile their religion with such seemingly cruel institution.

Provocative? Perhaps.

Charming.

Is it provocative to ask questions? Then so be it.

The bigger an organisation is, the more corrupt it will get and the more scope for the covering up of horrific abuse. I'm against the Catholic church for the same reasonI I'm against the EU. It's too large and too many of the people in it think they are infallible. If you read around the edges, it's clear that the Pope before JPII was assasinated as he was about to embark on a massive clean-up operation of the church.

Because they run my local school and I don't want a lengthy journey to another . Obv.

Are those these edges, TucsonGirl? www.tldm.org/News10/PopesSince1960.htm

Yes, there certainly seems to be something lacking comprehension-wise on this thread, Winky. It's not provocative to ask questions but you didn't do that, you're levelling comments at a religion about which you know very little. A Radio 4 discussion really shouldn't be the sum total of your research.

What do you actually KNOW about the abuse in religion - any religion - and what actions are being taken? Just because YOU don't see outrage and public condemnation doesn't mean it isn't there.

I'm all for discussion but your tone is quite accusatory with little backing up of your statements and sweeping generalisations. It's very irritating.

It is it claimed, however, that Catholic Church, as well as other institutions, have hidden and as a result, enabled paedophilia.

In that case, perhaps the question ought to be more along the lines of "why do people still support institutions which have covered up paedophilia?"
And we ought all to burn our TV licences, pull our children out of UK state schools, and dethrone the monarchy.

(not that I'm saying those things wouldn't be a very good idea, anyway!)

Lyingwitch, I'm asking. That is the point of this thread.

I do know the Catholic Church hid paedophile priests. Everyone knows that.

I do know the Catholic Church has not done much about these mass graves.

One is not allowed to ask it would seem.

That way all is kept quiet.

Please tell me what sweeping generalisations I have made.

Please tell me what sweeping generalisations I have made.
For starters, there is this, which is a real doozy, and for which you really ought to apologize.
Again and again, atrocities are exposed and it's always the Catholic church.

I didn't write that dearie.

Oops. It wasn't. Sorry, someone else's outrageous statement. I am sorry.

I do think that you are generalising, though, as in the following sentences:

Is there any other institution that constantly ducks and dives to avoid responsibility for the sheer brutality of its actions?

A gap that is not apparently even considered by this particular Church.

^'I do know the Catholic Church has not done much about these mass graves.'

One is not allowed to ask it would seem.'

The Catholic archbishop of Dublin has said that an inquiry independent of the Catholic Church should be carried out.

An inquiry should be carried out. Had it been carried out? Are there any plans to carry it out?

The existence of these mass graves has only emerged in the last couple of months. I certainly hope an inquiry is carried out.

Is the hiding of paedophile priests not ducking and diving the problem of paedophilia im the Catholic Church?

It would appear that Westminster in the 1980's at least could also be guilty of such cover ups.

I was baptised, confirmed, went to Catholic school for 13 years, my mother is a devout Catholic who goes at least every Sunday, and during the week if she can get to Mass.

I can accept that the paedophiles and the cruelty covers ups were not official teachings of the Church (though the instances are so widespread they look like they were unofficially sanctioned).

I cant accept a church that says gay marriage is wrong, abortion is wrong, contraception is wrong and that women are not equal to men (and I dont care how they justify it, the rule against women priest is premised on inequality). I was at a Catholic wedding on Friday and the priest took the opportunity to subject us all to a rant on gay marriage. Old white men spouting bigotry I cant endorse that. My mum is as liberal a 67 year old women as you would hope to meet, one of her best friends is a lesbian in a committed 20 year relationship. Cognitive dissonance is the only way you can explain it.

That said, its likely we will enrol our child at our local Catholic primary for purely pragmatic reasons its far better than the state school that were in zone for. Yes I am a total hypocrite. On one hand Im extremely uncomfortable to with sending my kids to a school thats part of a religion that I have such fundamental problems with, on the other I think why shouldnt I get some benefit after being dragged along to Mass for 18 years .

And the existence of these mass graves has only emerged to the media and the public in the last couple of months.

Who knew about them before they became public knowledge?

Were they kept secret? If so by whom? And why?

Who do you think they were kept secret by?

Well gee, obviously sections of the Catholic church kept them secret.

I don't know who kept them secret squoosh. But they were secret. Why?

Thank goodness there is more light being shed and provocative questions being asked by ignoramuses of all kinds everywhere

Gennz, I'm with you, I disagree with the Catholic church on nearly all their teachings and quite frankly I find religion boring.

If your choice is between a good Catholic school and another crappy school, go for the Catholic one. Your taxpayer's money funds it.

Is the hiding of paedophile priests not ducking and diving the problem of paedophilia im the Catholic Church?

Winky, that example certainly reads, in context, like a rhetorical question, not a genuine query. That perception is enhanced by the general tone of your posts, but maybe that's not what you are intending.

Did the Carholic Church hide paedophile priests?

sorry, when I say "that example", I mean the original quote - Is there any other institution that constantly ducks and dives to avoid responsibility for the sheer brutality of its actions? - reads like a (somewhat goady) rhetorical question.