To be a bit irritated by these church weddings for people who have never ever been in a church? And also the SCALE of these weddings!

[mrsjavierbardem]

AIBU? Really?
I didn't get married in a church because I don't practice my religion any more and my husband isn't a believer.

I just couldn't even though I was brought up in a faith and know all about it and understand the good and bad of it and I feel I could easily have argued for a church wedding because of my history. Still, I would have felt hypocritical I think.

People say to me that these weddings are all about the photographs and the making it feel more special. Those are good reasons but still, I couldn't just do God one day of my life, I just would feel ridiculous.

Also I don't see why some of these couples don't have a more moderate day? I'm about to go to a wedding when I know the couple have barely a few beans to rub together and they are having a serious do. I guess her parents are footing a lot but also the couple must be borrowing too….
it's just such a big expense for all of us going too, the presents, the clothes, the travel, two nights accommodation. I mean it's people with few beans making a lot of people with varying amounts of beans spend hundreds of beans!
I mean I am not crazy about the bride which doesn't help!
Dont' worry I am very nice to her but it all seems a great festival of fakery and vanity!

I mean I wish them well! And I'm glad to be asked! But it's just the splurging of money and the need to make everyone else splurge money that makes me uneasy. Of course one can just say No - but not easy at a family wedding!

We got married the year before alternate could be used for wedding ceremonies.
I do not believe in god, and did not then, but the only other alternative was the local registry office which is situated next to the local KwikFit and KFC and only holds 50 people. The church had lovely spots for photos and holds a couple of hundred.
I do not feel any guilt for using it as a venue for a legal officiating.
The vicar charged us almost £1000 for the ceremony, including an assortment of charges for petty little things : £100 for flowers (although we provided them, and left them for the next wedding) £100 for an organist (again we provided our own) £100 to cover the right to video . £50 for heating (in July? Apparently it was just in case) . AND he asked for cash payment, and would not accept a cheque.
We used them, they got a lot of revenue...

But I know he would do a registry office and a small scale party and spend appropriately if he'd had any choice

Wow, do you really think so little of the groom that he has no backbone?

In my case, it was my DH who wanted to marry in church, nothing to do with the photos as there are done fab civil venues that offer better.

You could see my wedding as pandering to my DH, I prefer to think of it as compromise. He got what he really wanted, I got what I really wanted in other aspects of the day. That's what compromising is about

It always amazes me how little people think of their friends when wedding threads come up.

I got married in a cathedral

I did it for my staunchly Catholic grandmother who couldn't even attend in the end. I must say though, the pictures looked FABULOUS! Just a shame about the divorce ...!

YABU,O-I,NAAB-KYNO,AIIOYSM,DBG!

*You are being unreasonable, over-invested, nosey and a busybody - keep your nose out, and if it offends you so much, don't bloody go!

You aren't really being a hypocrite if you aren't religious and get married in church, because if you don't believe in God, it's not like you worry you will be struck down by a lightning bolt as you step outside the door, is it? :)

Also church wedding doesn't necessarily mean extravagant. It's not expensive to book a church. Booking a hotel, on the other hand...

FWIW I did get married in church - there wasn't so much choice of licensed venues anyway ten years ago, the legislation only just having changed. My first thought was that I wanted to get married outside in a beautiful garden, but I think that's difficult even now. Even though we weren't regular church goers, when we thought about it at the time we did want a religious ceremony.

We haven't had our children Christened though. My beliefs had changed by then, and I couldn't stand up in front of my friends and say "I believe Jesus is the Son of God" or say that I would bring the children up as Christians, as I want them to make their own choice.

If I was getting married now I wouldn't choose a church- there are so many other options. I think most people are quite thoughtful about where they want to have their wedding ceremony and don't just pick a nice church "because of the photos."

Hmmm, a bit confused.
So if B&G were getting married in their local registry office and had a hor roast afterwards in their garden, used plastic plates and cups and served tap water only and bride was wearing cheapest primark dress would attending this wedding cost you any less???
You don't have to bring present - quite a few people didn't get us anything when we got married and that was fine, they couldn't afford it, I was happy they came.
Also does it say in their wedding invitation that you have to wear specific Prada outfit which you have to wear to be allowed to attend???
Also are they asking you to pay for your meal/drink etc? If not it is none of your business how much money they have and what they decide to spend it on...
Local travelodge was £30 per room per night if booked well in advance - people who didn't have much money to spend only stayed 1 night...
My DH's brother didn't come as he couldn't afford to pay for tickets ( lives abroad) and even though we were sad we understood ( and if we had spare £800 we would have paid for his ticket but sadly that wasn't possible)
Oh and yes we had a church wedding even though I don't go to church every Sunday (even if DH is not catholic) and our children will be brought up as Catholics and will highly likely go to Catholic school as well...
And yes they tried to make us pay £250 for flowers which we couldn't afford so we had no flowers...

Several points:

a) in a lot of cases, those who profess to follow a particular religion embody hypocrisy in a way that nothing else does - people proclaiming that their belief in god requires them to hate homosexuals/other religions/any number of other segments of society who fail to agree with them etc. 'Protecting' a religion against it's own policy of allowing non-members to get married in their churches seems proprietary at best, and self-important at worst.

b) this whole 'bridezilla' thing is tired, offensive and manages to be sexist in both directions. Do you really believe that men are such a pathetic species that they are unable to voice an opinion to the extent that they would jeopardise their long-term financial future to avoid a row about how much to spend on centrepieces? Or that there are women who choose, unilaterally, to blow all their savings on a wedding that their husband to be doesn't want just because magazines tell them they should? That's hardly a ringing endorsement for your taste in friends, unless it is an indictment of your unthinking loyalty to easily-led family members.

I mean I never felt I needed to do that whole fairytale wedding thing, I just thought it was a bit ridiculous!
I like weddings where you get together, dress up, eat and celebrate the couple and it's nice and informal.

Well, there you go - it sounds as though you think everyone should be just like you, and plan their weddings based on what you did for your and the kind of celebration you prefer. If that's your real point, then whether it is in a church or not makes no odds - you can blow thousands on a civil wedding just as easily as you can in a church. You don't have to dress it up as taking offence on the part of a religion you don't follow. You can just admit that you would prefer it if everyone made the same choices as you.

FWIW - I didn't get married in a church as I didn't want the day to be about making promises to a being I don't believe in. But my opinions on how much should be spent and what should be involved in a wedding began and ended on that day.

You are being unreasonable.

Is this your SIL to be, mrsjavierbardem? Is the groom your brother?

If so, I think you really do need to try to deal with the intensity of your feelings of dislike and contempt towards the woman your brother is marrying.

Those feelings will do much more harm towards long term family relations, than could ever be done by non-believers opting to be married in church (or, indeed, by some temporary financial hardship caused by them indulging in a bit of fantasy for their dream day).

The individual church doesn't get the money though (C of E). It goes to the diocese and helps to cover overall Dioscesan costs, eg clergy salaries, pensions, training costs etc.

This changed a few years ago partly because very pretty (photogenic) churches were able to clean up on wedding fees, while the uglier churches didn't get a look in, so it is fairer.

Individual churches get the contents of the collection plate (very low average at weddings, probably because all the other shizz is so expensive). Organists fees are paid to the organist, see scale of RSCM fees if you are interested!

We wanted a small registry office wedding (and by small we meant our siblings and parents attending and no one else) however, both our families expressed that there were people they wanted there and that they would pay for it. So that's what we are getting.

Same thing regarding the church. We weren't bothered, it made them happy, so we went along. I was dreading it all, but actually, we have been welcomed into the church despite flaky attendance, and we have both grown quite fond of the Minister.

The church isn't charging a penny due to my family being a member, though we will make a donation. And the rest of the event is being organised by me in a very cheap and guest centred way.

I would be horrified if I thought members of DPs family thought I was demanding and having a day that was above my station. So I think YABVU to be so mean about the bride, because you don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

However, your general point I agree with. Weddings are far too flashy nowadays and have kind of lost their meaning. And they are a licence to print money for venues etc.

"Daisy Plenty of people believe in the basic tenets of a religion and would class themselves as a member but don't have the time or inclination to turn up each week.

Actually attending church each week is very rare. My friends of other religions only tend to go to Schul / temple for the big events.

People have jobs/ kids / lives"

Yes, but if people never ever go to Church why choose it for their wedding. To be honest, I'm a Catholic and am thinking about it from that perspective because in a Catholic ceremony you have to promise to do your best to bring your children up as Catholics and it is very hypocritical (and offensive to practising Catholics) for a couple who never practise their religion and are often openly sneery or critical of it, to stand at an altar and say 'we will'.

But maybe, in some religions, there is no necessity to express any ongoing commitment to that religion as part of your wedding vows.

The individual churches do get the money. Part of the money goes to the Parochial Council, part of it to pay for vicar and if needed choir/flowers/organist. Each church then has to pay a set amount each year to the diocese which is based upon what happened in the church the year before (weddings, funerals, numbers at weekly services etc)

I seriously doubt our church got much of the money we paid. For the vicar to give us an invoice written on a sheet of a4 paper, and demand cash, and wouldn't take a cheque. Like any profession, Police, Doctors, Clergy - not all are honest.

My vicar friend used to get depressed at the couples who'd troop into his office for the wedding organisation/preparation and ask him to leave out "the God stuff" such as hymns and prayers. Now he's just resigned to it, I think.

There are so many beautiful alternative venues nowadays that I don't get why you'd make promises you don't mean just to secure a nice building. I'd feel anxious about marrying someone making some vows he considered bullshit, in case he felt the same about the rest.

Religion is so important to me that I couldn't have married an atheist, I don't think.

But there's no less atmosphere in Hever Castle or Manchester Town Hall than a pretty village church.

It is traditional to get married in a church and many of them are architecturally important and attractive parts of our shared heritage.

More and more people are rejecting religion but we shouldn't be kicked out of our historic local buildings too.

The church funded much of the best art music and buildings for many centuries, it doesn't make God true, nor does it mean that non believers can't love these things without believing in god.

Religions have changed since many churches were built, so even the religious will have views and beliefs that don't match those who built the churches and the strict rules and structure they were built to enforce.

No thank god not my SIL!

TBH everyone feels the same about her, it's not just me! She is a princessy type that has never bothered me before, it's just going to be three days of travel expense and fuss for her special day and believe me her dh to be has NO BACKBONE when it comes to her! honestly I am not being misogynistic this girl is a piece of work!

Sorry to offend, this is what mumsnet used to be for, somewhere to come for a moan now and then. Or to offer or look for support.

I genuinely think these extravagant weddings are morally dubious, you are making people spend loads of money to satisfy your ego. At least be honest about it. In my parents day people had the wedding they could afford generally, so aristocrats spent zillions on weddings coz they HAD zillions. I've been to weddings were tens of thousands have been spent out of all proportion to their actual lifestyle.

I am very sorry if I offend but I think that is a bit odd. Some people HAVE to come to your wedding, so if you are making others spend money I think it is a valid point to be considerate. THat's all I'm saying. I feel irritated and I want to raise the moral issue for some debate. I do think it is a bit wrong. That's all. I'm not as bothered about the church thing but it genuinely seems a bit silly.

I don't want everyone to be the same as me, but I do think people go a bit mad. It's also irritating when you go to a humoungous wedding and the couple split up within a year. So what did we all do that for?

Sorry, what I meant is that it should be about the marriage not the day.

I heard an interview with a woman who had post honeymoon depression…. give me strength.

I do agree with on every point OP. I always felt that way about big church weddings by people who have dropped all religious commitments, and beliefs, but who suddenly are married by a priest at the altar as it's all part of the big wedding show.

The thing is I'm very low key in that respect and the mere idea of swanning around all day in a big frilly white frock in front of a crowd makes me cringe.

And I couldn't even contemplate a church wedding as I am an atheist.

However, each to their own. I also massively disagree with women becoming Mrs Man after they get married as it feels like selling yourself to the patriarchy but then it's also a cultural thing that it's rooted so deeply in people's psyches. It will take centuries to see any changes on a large scale.

So this is what the CofE say:

"As long as it's legal, you’re welcome to marry in the Church of England whatever your beliefs, whether or not you are christened and regardless of whether you go to church or not. It’s your church, and we welcome you!"

So if they are happy to welcome anyone of any belief into their church for a wedding, why do you care as a non practicing member of a religion? It's none of your business to judge what that church and your friends get up to in choosing to marry. Fair enough you have a belief that it would be wrong, but that's the thing about beliefs they're personal, they are never a reason to judge someone with a different belief.

Judging people with different beliefs has historically been something religion has got massively wrong, so it's pretty sad that it's you as the non-believer who is now struggling to tolerate it.

YABU

Ah yes, the Mumsnet police, out in force to control who is and isn't allowed to marry in church.

My agnostic husband and I (I am a believer, although a very wishy washy one) were married in church by... a BISHOP Cue outrage! He was delighted to do it. I have absolutely no idea why anyone else should care.

We got married in church as non believers. For me it was about that particular church - in the village I grew up in where my parents still are, I had gone to Sunday school there, guide services, nativity plays, walked past it every day to my primary school, mum in the choir. I wouldn't have got married in any other church but that particular one meant something to me. Reception in the lovely old hall next to the church so gorgeous village wedding in MY village. I don't feel a shred of guilt about this.

I agree OP, it's nothing but vanity in my opinion.

An acquaintance of mine whose Twitter bio starts with "Atheist!" has been broadcasting details of her upcoming church do for months.

Bue, this is just my opinion, I do not want to control anyone, I'm massively in favour of people doing what they want within the law and human decency, of course! I am very happy for people to be free to marry anywhere.

My point was that I was irritated not trying to ban anything. I'm trying to discuss it. I learned this from the Ancient Greeks. We can discuss anything can't we?

I said I was irritated by people who have never ever been near a church in their whole lives suddenly having a church wedding. Kerala, what a totally logical decision and a lovely one. If you have an association with a place and its church then that isn't irritating to me at all! It's the going to a church and just picking it for it's photogenicness and never having stepped foot in the village before. so no association, no belief former or present, I mean it is a little odd to me that people are so gung ho to do it. Is all. But I think vows are special particularly when they are meant.

I just don't want to spend three days glorifying this woman….

I think you need to reconsider whether you go to this couples wedding.You clearly don't like the bride. I think it is hypocritical of you to attend the wedding of someone you clearly don't like.

It's more than just the bride's wedding though, isn't it?! You've just proved the OP's point for her - people become so focused on it being "the bride's special day" that the groom gets overlooked. The OP has already stated she's going out of liking for/loyalty to/family duty towards the groom.

Has no one ever attended the wedding of a female friend who you privately think is marrying a complete cock, but you go anyway because she's your friend/relation, not him?

OP, FWIW I mostly agree with you. I don't like pretending to be something you're not in any walk of life, and that includes any pretence around religion at wedding time. I have respect for someone who says "I'm not religious and I'm not going to pretend to be religious but I'd like to be married in church for the aesthetics / because it's my local church where I grew up and I have happy memories" - that's fair enough, and is happily now catered for within CofE.

As for the wedding trappings, it does often become excessive and the trend is to make more and bigger demands of guests in terms of time and money. I'm all for "people can spend their own money on whatever they want", but so often it isnt their own money! It's the bank's money, or their parents' money, or even their guests' money. So much time, effort and money is invested in planning a wedding for so long and the result is, from the guests' perspective, quite often pretty much the same as the last one, and the one before that, and the next one. There are woman who do turn into bridezillas - my ex-DIL was one. (I think the low point was when she burst into tears and accused everyone of trying to sabotage her wedding because an elderly relative who had just come out of hospital after a serious bowel operation asked (several weeks before the wedding, so not the night before) if she would be able to have a different meal on the advice of her consultant.) The sad thing is she worked herself into a frenzy of stress over the tiny details to the point where she was unable to enjoy either the preparation or parts of the day itself, and I doubt if most of us who were there can remember the colour of the flowers or the design of the favours now anyway. She is by no means unique. That's sad and unnecessary and contrary to the spirit of everything a wedding should be.

And to the PP who said upthread "I don't go to Midnight Mass and get my hymn on" - I snorted so loudly trying to suppress unexpected laughter that it woke the cat up and she leapt off the bed