how to handle an expressing mother in class. WWYD?

[susanjones123]

NC because this will definitely out me to any colleagues or students.

One of my students (I'm an HE lecturer) had 6 months off recently to have a baby. She's now returned to study which is great and we are delighted to have her back. The department has been very accommodating for her and let her miss classes, leave early when necessary, bring her baby to meetings etc.

So far, so fine.

She's still BFing and using expressed milk when her DH does the feeding. She uses an electric pump. The problem is that she uses the pump in the classroom. I don't mean in the actual class, during the lectures but at the beginning when everyone is arriving and sometimes during group work activities. I, personally, find this very off-putting (not putting me off my teaching but just generally quite off-putting) and other students have commented quite negatively.

As the main academic she has contact with, I feel as though it falls to me to have a word about this but I'm really unsure how to handle it.

I bottle-fed both of mine from day 1 so I'd really appreciate the experiences of people who have BF on this, please.

SDT Hmmm, something to think about!

Thanks so much for the vote of confidence. I can't help but feel I've cocked this all up!

I don't think you've cocked it up at all.

Well done, I think you've handled this brilliantly. I'm a uni lecturer myself and a mother who's very pro-breastfeeding (I expressed milk around the clock with an electric pump for both my prematurely born DC, and I breastfed them all the way through toddlerhood). I don't think expressing milk in class is at all appropriate. It's not because it's offensive, it's because it's distracting. Before and after class is a different matter.

You have done her a big favour by finding her a room where she can express in peace, and by saying that she can leave the class to do so (though actually I'm a bit surprised that she can't go for a two-hour period without expressing). You're the lecturer and it's your prerogative to say she can't do this IN your class DURING class time.

Blimey. I don't want any distractions while I'm teaching, whether mobile phones or noise in the corridor or breast pumps! Stay strong, you can be sympathetic and pro-breastfeeding and still protect your teaching environment.

Also, for what it's worth, this woman must have nerves of steel, because normally one has to be relaxed when expressing milk in order for the milk to flow (since no pump, hand or electric, is as effective as a baby's suck). So if she can actually get her milk to flow in a room full of strangers, she is a tough cookie. More power to her, but I would still maintain the following distinction:
Expressing in public = fine. Not disgusting or sexual or anything like that.
Expressing during class = not fine. Learning is about concentration and electric pumps ARE noisy.

I wouldn't want a baby in my class either, TBH, whether bottle-fed or breast-fed or just gurgling on its parent's lap. Again, too damn distracting!

The context does matter though. I have brought babies along to meetings where deep concentration isn't required, and so has my DH.

toebat makes a very valid point. In insisting to HR that your HoD deals with the matter you are following protocol, NOT passing the buck.

This sets a precedent for future nursing mothers.

marfisa Yes! You'd think that someone who is able to let her milk flow in such situations would NOT have supply issues and thus need to be expressing during lectures.

I'm still waiting for an email back from my HoD (emailed him on Monday) but he's absolutely rubbish so not expecting to hear anything. I have just emailed the student to ask her to come and meet with me and I have copied to HoD in and booked him into the meeting with his secretary who keeps his diary.

You're absolutely right that I don't want to be the scape goat on this so I'm involving the HoD more and more and trying to distance myself from the 'core' of the issue (i.e. provision for the student) and only being concerned with what concerns me directly (i.e. distrations in my class, complaints of my students).

Thanks again all, cheered me up no end!!

I know there are procedures and policies about these sorts of things but the email copying in head will definitely make her feel alienated and hostile. Just be prepared for that. When really how much longer will she have needed to do this for until the end of term? A couple of weeks? I dunno... I know I'm not being helpful but I think you might want to go for the suggesting a quieter pump angle rather than the "we've found you a special room where you can lactate in secret" kind of angle? Maybe. I don't know.

You sound lovely and like you just really want to do the right thing. Good luck Xx

Ah. You see, I'd do the opposite as you could be walking yourself into a difficult position!

You don't know what her experiences have been with the college, so just think for a moment how you might be perceived:

• she's happy and has been offered full support by the college, feels confident her needs have been met. In this context you addressing complaints is fine.

-however, if she's struggling or feeling the college is unsupportive, hasn't helped her or found solutions for her, and generally have set themselves against her. Your actions under these circumstances could be seen as the last straw in a fraught situation, and could be seen as collective discrimination by everyone at the college.

Be so careful! Before you do anything, do find out what she has been offered to her/ what the background to all this is.

I absolutely would not be informing her about complaints from other students, especially as they are more likely to be about the fact that she is expressing than about the noise.

I would just explain that you are concerned about the noise causing a distraction and would like her to use the room during teaching time if she feels the need to express then.

"We wanted to make sure your needs are being met to accommodate your current situation. We have a room where you can express in peace and use a fridge to store your milk if you would find that more comfortable" or something like that.

I pretty much wouldn't mention complaints or noise because she might get defensive. She could throw the rulebook at you since ..yaknow... she's not actually doing anything wrong.

Haha soz loletta didn't see that you said pretty much the same thing

She could throw the rulebook at you since ..yaknow... she's not actually doing anything wrong.

I respectfully disagree. There are all sorts of perfectly legal activities that are too disruptive to be carried out during a university class or lecture.

I think you should get her to read this

I totally know what you mean marfisa but I struggle to compare it to anything iyswim

goldmandra- hilarious!!!

I saw a woman breastfeeding in a park and was overcome with desire. I left my wife the same day." - John, 34, Nebraska

LOL

Like I said, I hope she squirts breastmilk on the handouts

Yes, great link, Goldmandra!

Actually, to LRD and ithought for being so supportive of the idea of expressing in the classroom. I can see where you're coming from and I'm sympathetic.

But again - and I'm talking about my personal preference as a lecturer here, not issuing a universal ethical law - it's important to me to create a learning environment that's as distraction-free as possible. I wouldn't want a student eating lunch in class, texting in class (I have had to stop students doing that - it's so rude!), knitting in class, or doing any number of other things. It's not just about noise; it's about everyone keeping their attention focused on the task of learning - myself included, because I'm very easily distracted.

Granted, expressing milk is a far more important activity than texting or knitting or something like that. But I would still want it to happen outside the classroom. NOT to spare people the sight of a woman expressing (if that bothers them, then frankly, fuck them), but to protect my teaching/learning space. And I would absolutely support the student in finding a convenient nearby place to express in. So I think I would do exactly what the OP has done although I hope to god I am never placed in that position because I hate confrontation as much as the next person.

marfisa I really do know where you're coming from. It's a shame for her that she wouldn't sort of rather go do it sat in a comfy armchair somewhere where she can flick through a magazine, have a cup of tea and then concentrate fully on her lecture and group work. For whatever reason she's decided that she wants to do it right there and then. I didn't make It that far in my breastfeeding to know how bad engorgement is at 6 months or whatever age the baby is. I really can't comment on why she's doing it.

I basically feel bad that now she will feel really alienated for her decision when it's one of those things that just should be encouraged in all circumstances because breastfeeding figures are so shocking. I have female relatives that gave up after days sometimes hours for feeling self conscious. For whatever reason this lady thinks it's ok to do it in a lecture. Go her!! How cool would it be for that university to be super accommodating/ cool/liberal about It. It would make me want to study there!

I do see that.

And I'm probably lucky that I'm not very easily distracted (and I do honestly find that if I'm not distracted, the rest of the class isn't either.

I think it is much better for her to get the room, and it sounds as if the OP is bending over backwards to help out. I do want to stress that. I just think, if this were her only option (and it sounds from the update as if the university is doing their very best to make sure it's not), then the lecturer/class would have to cope. I don't believe it should be the only option, though, and I'm very glad it's not.

It seems to me she has a legal and moral right to do what she is doing, and I don't really see why it should be so distracting to others who are trying to learn. Best practice is to offer her a suitable private room, yes (in fact pretty sure you are legally required to do so - I insisted my work place did!) So you could offer this, but she has right to continue in public if she is comfy doing so.
Just because the majority of your students object to it, it doesn't mean you have to be governed by their prejudice. There have been (and are) times and cultures where the majority of a class would claim to be uncomfortable with a woman, or a person of different ethnicity, being educated alongside them - would you be governed by these opinions?

Lovelydiscus, you think she has a legal right to express during a class? Really? I doubt it. I suspect this is an area that is still murky in law. In fact, I'm not even sure that a woman in the UK currently has a legal right to a suitable private space to express milk in in the workplace, which is a real shame. See this link for example: www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/j/k/Acas_guide_on_accommodating_breastfeeding_in_the_workplace_(JANUARY2014).pdf

I just don't see why it would constitute such a hardship for an expressing mother to express milk outside class rather than in class. In fact, this student's decision to express milk during group work strikes me as quite rude - the implication is that group work isn't important. How the hell is she supposed to take notes, I wonder?

I speak as someone who is very keen on increasing awareness of women's legal right to breastfeed in public. The Equality Act of 2010 makes it clear that it is illegal to ask a breastfeeding woman to leave a public place such as a cafe, shop, etc. A breastfeeding mother was illegally made to leave a shop in my city, and I joined other mothers in a nurse-in protest - we all brought our babies to the shop the following weekend and breastfed them there, with the local news covering the event. (By which point the shop had already backed down and apologised - they welcomed us and fed us tea and cake!)

I'm not sure a classroom is considered a public space, however.