how to handle an expressing mother in class. WWYD?

[susanjones123]

NC because this will definitely out me to any colleagues or students.

One of my students (I'm an HE lecturer) had 6 months off recently to have a baby. She's now returned to study which is great and we are delighted to have her back. The department has been very accommodating for her and let her miss classes, leave early when necessary, bring her baby to meetings etc.

So far, so fine.

She's still BFing and using expressed milk when her DH does the feeding. She uses an electric pump. The problem is that she uses the pump in the classroom. I don't mean in the actual class, during the lectures but at the beginning when everyone is arriving and sometimes during group work activities. I, personally, find this very off-putting (not putting me off my teaching but just generally quite off-putting) and other students have commented quite negatively.

As the main academic she has contact with, I feel as though it falls to me to have a word about this but I'm really unsure how to handle it.

I bottle-fed both of mine from day 1 so I'd really appreciate the experiences of people who have BF on this, please.

Why when there is a possible alternative that means you are not disturbing colleagues with the noise, would you not take that up?

I've just asked DH for his views - after he has has sat through eleventy million pumping sessions in the car/at night etc. he thinks the noise would be pretty distracting too.

If the room isn't an alternative then, fine, it will have to be done in the class room. But why not at least explore that possibility.

slithy - but surely, if you're not being given a break, then the only time you can do it is while working? Would it not be the case then, that you'd be entitled to?

I do believe it is required in most (all?) universities to provide a place to BF.

gobbolino - how much exploring would you like?

I've managed to express in public to manage engorgement. Like feeding baby, it was a simple case of vest and bra cup down, stick up baggy tshirt and walk around at the back of the group to attract less attention with the pumping noise. This was in the middle of a tour of a kipper smokehouse. No flesh on display. I'd reached the point in the day where I was in pain, with breasts doing very good impressions of watermelons, and was getting concerned about the risk of mastitis from blocked ducts.

I couldn't express with my first baby, but managed to find a pump that worked for my second, but my body is inefficient at expressing so it takes a long time to get enough milk for a feed/ relieve engorgement.

Presumably this student is expressing in this situation because for her it's the most practical balance for being involved in her course, rather than being isolated in another room for prolonged periods.

If the concern raised is over the distraction of the noise, that's very different to a "eugh" factor. Pumping during group work is different to sitting and waiting for others to arrive.

I've found when having to express away from home, that it's surprisingly difficult to find comfortable, discrete places with a convenient socket. Much harder than getting comfy for feeding baby directly.

This thread is hilarious. We've had comparisons to racial abuse, disability, stomas and some more, I'm sure.

Lecture halls are for; listening, learning, typing, writing and interacting.

Btw if you compared a woman choosing to express breastmilk in the same way as me walking in with my crutches, I'd probably shove one of my sticks where the sun don't shine. I can't help but clatter around, I wish I had a choice to leave it at the door.

Currently breastfeeding my second, and I exclusively expressed for my first over 7 months (he refused solids at the recommended 6 - the only baby I ever heard of to do that, and he was getting every drop via bloody Ameda Lactaline. Joy) and I also think you need to find her somewhere more private. NOT a stationery cupboard either - an academic's office, on a temp basis perhaps? She has a right to express and should have somewhere okay to do it, but I also feel mid-session isn't the place.

I would find the click-hiss of a pump really distracting, personally. I have little patience with prurient or prim objections, but in practical terms this isn't exactly the setting for expressing. It is hard to think with mechanical noise going on for a lot of people, me for one. I'm assuming you'd give anyone complaining about her breastfeeding in public short shrift, here?

Her baby deserves her milk if she wants to give it, and fair play for you for seeing that. But if some objections are reasonable, and not just "ewww, boobs are for page 3" then those objectors have rights, too.

LRD - surprisingly, it's not a legal requirement. I linked in one of my earlier posts.

So, does the law protect bf and expressing while actively doing a job? I wouldn't have thought it's enforceable.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_lATPcU3rQ

YY, I saw - I was saying, I believed it was a requirement in most/all universities.

Balls wrong link, sorry

www.hse.gov.uk/mothers/faqs.htm#q14

So for instance, all breaks are unpaid in my job.

Therefore if an employee needed to take a longer break to express, this would be facilitated in an appropriate room, but unpaid.

As far as possible, shifts would be scheduled around that need to express, not just for the mother, but for the needs of the business as well, making sure there is enough cover on the shop floor.

Based on this, if a mother decided to express while doing her job as opposed to on a break (therefore getting paid for it), is this ok?

I say not. What do others think?

Slithy if a mother could wear an expressing bra (so hands free) and had access to a laptop, or her own office/shared with people who didn't mind, and got on with work while expressing, why on earth not work in a paid capacity at the same time? I was posting under another name at the time but almost all my MN posting in a 6 month period was while I expressed - it's not exactly mentally challenging.

I think that's slightly shit, but I also think it is more shit in the context of university.

You're paid to do your job.

This woman is paying.

I work in retail.

Things like stocking shelves, unpacking in the warehouse, serving customers, etc.

I feel that if being paid to do a job, then someone should be doing that job, not combining it with a personal activity.

Also, what if the other people did mind? Presumably they would be vilified as some have been on this thread.

Sorry LRD what do you think is shit? That breaks are unpaid? It's pretty normal for retail.

Do you also think that women shouldn't get paid leave to attend antenatal appointments, then? It's similar, no?

Agree you can't serve customers or stock shelves when plugged in, though.

No I don't think it's similar. No one gets paid breaks at all. So to then start paying for a break specifically to express, where otherwise that employee might not even get a break (e.g. on a 4 hour shift) would seem discriminatory to those who can't bf/express IMO.

I'd talk to your supervisor and get some clear understanding of the law. The last thing your school wants is to be slapped with a discrimination suit.

If an employee is contracted for a 4 hour shift, (usually gets no breaks) and needs say a 30 minute break half way through in order to express, that shift would then either become 4 hours with 3.5 unpaid, or 4.5 with 4 hours unpaid, depending on what the employee wanted.

It would need to be scheduled so that the soho floor had enough cover. There would be no extra wages budget to pay for an extra half hour each time the expressing employee was on shift.

As for antenatal appts, since all employees are part time, we would encourage the schedules to work around those appointments where possible, while obviously not insisting on it.

But normally the employees would know their appointment dates well before I did the schedules.

i would find the click-hiss of a pump really distracting, personally

Yup - I've got that bloody ameda lactaline pump too. The noise is irritating. Plus DD won't take any formula and is 24 weeks next week. God knows how long this hissing torment will go on for sobs

I'm going off to look up the actual statutes. My recollection is that breastfeeding isn't defined memories of looking into this for a client That being the case, the "ordinary" meaning would be used and my view is that wouldn't cover expressing too

Interestingly, the HSE guidance (not binding) recommends provision of a room with a lockable door for expressing at work. Presumably the thought being that women would like privacy, if possible.

squiggly - yes. Totally agree re getting advice

slithy - no, the whole situation, I meant. I've never had paid breaks either, but then, retail pays minimum wage for the hours you work, which is also something I'm not experiencing in academia.

I think universities should be much better at this.

If it helps, my company pay 30p over minimum wage

Er, no, not hugely, but thanks!

I'm in awe of people who have the skill to express in public. I had to do it with no top on, to be able to see the pump.

If milk didn't drip down as it was expressed it would quickly build up in the valve and then get sucked into the motor causing much mess and panic to get it out ASAP before damage was done.

It never improved even at month 10 of doing it - in fact got harder as supply was thready and dwindling.

So side point - wow, cooool skillz :)

On another point - yeah ithoughtofitfirst, they were awful, I don't think they realised (or cared) how worried and disenfranchised a woman is returning from maternity leave.

So conversations I would have been able to deal with ok previously, became a completely different power balance. I felt forced into accepting bad treatment, because I didn't have enough social status in the conpany, and felt insisting on my rights would denigrate my status further.

It was made clear that they'd done an amazing thing to 'let me' have may leave (very bad package, legal minimum even though they were a highly successful business and I was a senior employee and had been there 10yrs!), and that it was time for me to pay back their kindness, so back to work full swing, to make up for lost time, no extra considerations needed and if asked for, was a sign of lack of comittment to the company.

A four day week was something to be fought to have, as they couldn't see how anyone can do the job part time and wasn't fair on the others etc etc, dont even think about asking for 3 days... and you must be ready willing and able to fly anywhere at a moments notice (1-2 days max notice), and it's not fair to the others if I couldn't due to childcare or breast feeding reasons. And on and on in that vein. It was disgusting.

Now, they're attitude is somewhat different, as they realised they were having younger very talented women leave as the place wasn't parent friendly and therefore didn't fit into their life plan. So now, lots of part time working, flexible working, home working etc. Kind of amazing as they were convinced their industry and company was different and couldn't accommodate any of those things!

I wonder if they've got better about bf? I actually suspect not, although other things have got better.