how to handle an expressing mother in class. WWYD?

[susanjones123]

NC because this will definitely out me to any colleagues or students.

One of my students (I'm an HE lecturer) had 6 months off recently to have a baby. She's now returned to study which is great and we are delighted to have her back. The department has been very accommodating for her and let her miss classes, leave early when necessary, bring her baby to meetings etc.

So far, so fine.

She's still BFing and using expressed milk when her DH does the feeding. She uses an electric pump. The problem is that she uses the pump in the classroom. I don't mean in the actual class, during the lectures but at the beginning when everyone is arriving and sometimes during group work activities. I, personally, find this very off-putting (not putting me off my teaching but just generally quite off-putting) and other students have commented quite negatively.

As the main academic she has contact with, I feel as though it falls to me to have a word about this but I'm really unsure how to handle it.

I bottle-fed both of mine from day 1 so I'd really appreciate the experiences of people who have BF on this, please.

OP could be in Aus or NZ with a year that starts in January?

Surely it can't be as easy for the student to follow/join in whilst pumping? Or at least for the few minutes whilst she gets set up or unhooked, puts milk away etc. And I imagine she could be a little behind anyway if she's had to miss anything due to the baby, or at least a bit sleep deprived, so missing bits isn't ideal.

As an aside, I used to have three hour labs. There's no way you could pump during one of those, or get all the work done if you left, so if she was doing a degree with that as part, presumably she'd have to find a way around it.

The only objection which is reasonable is related to the noise the pump makes, which could be distracting.

If the mother uses a manual pump there will be no noise.

Problem solved.

Polka - whether the mother can participate fully while she's pumping - well this is up to her isn't it? She's paying. She certainly couldn't participate at all if she's been made to sit in a room on her own.

whether the mother can participate fully while she's pumping - well this is up to her isn't it?

If it really is a loud pump that will prevent people from doing group work, I can kind of accept that objection. However, it would have to be very loud when you think that you can manage fine with a projector running, roadworks outside, other people's conversations, etc.

I tend to think that the problem isn't the noise of the pump that is the issue. It's what the noise makes them aware of that's the problem for the students and the OP.

Of course it's up to her, but I should imagine she is missing little bits doing it, and if she were offered an alternative that meant she didn't have to pump while she's working she might be very pleased.

I have only skim read the other (non OP) posts so sorry if I am going over old ground, but as I understand it, none of us is in a position to say what this mother needs to do.

• we don't know her timetable
• we don't know how often she needs to express to ensure supply
• we don't know what other facilities are potentially available, if her timetable allows
• we don't know the physical and logistical realities relating to any of this so should stop speculating about "surely only every three hours?" and "surely not necessary in class time".

for all we know, it could be the case that it's give formula, or drop your education. that mother may be passionately dedicated to doing neither of these.
Or - she could be an almighty show-off, and a deliberate pain in the arse. who knows.
(but bear in mind that being a deliberate pain in the arse does not disqualify you for being reasonably treated)

So -

I think the OP's organisation needs to

• check the legalities that apply to this, as background knowledge for safety
• make a decision as to what their policy is on this, knowing that it is legal, and taking the ethical and social approach to facilitating all their students' education that they are comfortable with
• have a one-to-one conversation with this student to lay all this out and plan how this is going to work going forward
• then they will be in good shape to tell whomever they are going to tell to get over themselves, to get over themselves

frankly, I cannot imagine expressing in public (I find expressing very embarrassing though I would breastfeed anywhere - bfing a cooperative baby is intrinsically modest, quiet and ignorable) but as I was so exhausted with the whole small-ebf-baby thing, the alternative - do nothing but be a mother on mat leave - was quite acceptable to me. To have the nous and the energy to be pursuing all this, which is far from the path of least resistance, is admirable.

There has been research into how colleges and universities should handle these situations. The student is not an employee, so not covered by the Workplace Regs, but they are covered by the Equality Act.

The college should have this included under their equal rights policy, should have put in place a student support plan, and a private room for expressing should be provided. Given that the college should already be able to provide a private room for staff, this could be extended to use by students.

Definitely one to punt over to Human Resources

"I tend to think that the problem isn't the noise of the pump that is the issue."

No - but everyone is clinging to the idea that there the disruption to lessons is caused by the noise of the breast pump rather than by the prurience and squeamishness of the other students.

If the mother can express silently there really isn't any disruption that can't be solved by telling the other students to stop watching her.

The law on breastfeeding says this:

"Further and higher education bodies must not discriminate, harass or victimise a student who is breastfeeding in terms of admission or provision of education or by excluding the student or subjecting her to any detriment. This includes access to benefits, facilities or services."

Asking a student to stop expressing, or to miss part of a lecture in order to go somewhere else and express (when there are no health and safety concerns) - to me that sounds like discrimination and exclusion.

Asking a student to stop expressing, or to miss part of a lecture in order to go somewhere else and express (when there are no health and safety concerns) - to me that sounds like discrimination and exclusion.

I presume that they wouldn't ask her to miss a lecture to express though. They would probably just provide facilities for her to express before lectures, during normal breaks, during lunch hour etc.

I have no idea of this woman's time-table, journey time to class, etc, so I cannot comment on whether she needs to pump when she does. Assuming she's using a cool-bag (which will be able to keep the milk cool enough to stay fresh for a limited period), I can probably come up with half-a-dozen scenarios which entirely justify what she's doing. Other people could then come up with half-a-dozen other equally possible scenarios, which would demonstrate that she doesn't. So I won't bother.

However, I can comment that I have never participated in a group-work segment with over 6 students, that wasn't louder than my Medela Symphony used to be. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was a double pump, to enable me to express from both breasts simultaneously.

This is why I hate group-work so much.

Hmm, ackshurely, maybe not. Medela cool-bags are better than I thought they were.

From a legal perspective, doesn't the Equalities act with regard to discrimination against a person who has given birth only cover up to 26 weeks from the birth? The OP said the woman returned after 6 months off, so the baby is likely just past this point by now, meaning the law (which is, IMO, totaly inadequate in this regard anyway) is likely does not provide requirements for this situation.

Whatever - it may be that she has to express in some lectures. Say she breastfed at 7am, dropped her child at nursery, arrived at college at 9am then has a 2 hour class followed quickly by a one hour session. Most women don't want to/can't leave a 5 hour gap between feeding/expressing sessions without some discomfort and risk if compromising their milk supply.

I got the impression that her DH was looking after the baby if he was doing the feeding. Anyway, they could argue that she will have to drop her child off earlier, arrive at college earlier and express before the lectures, during breaks etc etc.

The Equality act only requires that employers make "reasonable adjustments" so that someone isn't disadvantaged. I doubt that employers or colleges have to let mothers express at any time or place in order to comply with the law.

The Equality act only requires that employers make "reasonable adjustments" so that someone isn't disadvantaged.

Hmm, the more you post, the more I feel sorry for the expressing woman! I arranged my lactation and expressing around my children. What you're proposing sounds like arranging it round the university, and neatly encapsulates to me why the only successful student parents I know who studied with a baby are male.

The Equality act only requires that employers make "reasonable adjustments" so that someone isn't disadvantaged.

It could easily be argued that if the noise produced is low as stated by the op and if she isn't having to strip off and flash everything which according to the op she isn't then allowing to express in lectures is a reasonable adjustment and other students feeling it is icky isn't grounds to discriminate against her.

Hmm, the more you post, the more I feel sorry for the expressing woman! I arranged my lactation and expressing around my children. What you're proposing sounds like arranging it round the university, and neatly encapsulates to me why the only successful student parents I know who studied with a baby are male.

I arranged it around my children and my employers/colleagues.

"Maternity action" states "Ideally, you would be allowed to take breaks when you need them but you may have to fit around your existing breaks or lunch hour or fit in with the demands of your job. Remember, just as a baby rarely feeds to an exact schedule it will not matter if you
cannot express at exactly the right time.

I imagine your children had equal or greater priority than your workplace, no? Not less?

I doubt it affects the baby if someone expresses milk five-to-ten minutes later or earlier than they would like, but there's a difference between ten minutes and an hour, or three, particularly in terms of the woman's personal comfort, and in terms of storage. (I wouldn't want to be lugging breastmilk around for hours on a hot day, even in a cooler bag!)

So, in the scenario that minifingers suggested, now she has to do the morning breastfeed earlier, in order to put in an extra pumping session before she arrives, so that she can move the pumping session she was doing at arrival in one lecture to another point.

I doubt it affects the baby if someone expresses milk five-to-ten minutes later or earlier than they would like, but there's a difference between ten minutes and an hour, or three, particularly in terms of the woman's personal comfort, and in terms of storage. (I wouldn't want to be lugging breastmilk around for hours on a hot day, even in a cooler bag!)

I doubt that half an hour to an hour makes a huge difference. It certainly didn't to me anyway. The university should provide a fridge to store milk.

Yes, my children are more important to me than my workplace. That doesn't mean that I don't take my workplace/colleagues into consideration as well though.

What harm is she doing anyone?

Because people are 'offended' by it they must be right, and she should be asked to stop?

What if people on the course complained they were 'offended' by a woman wearing a burka? They would be told not to be ridiculous right? And so should these students.

Would they be so offended by her wearing a low cut top and short skirt? I doubt it. Probably some of those complaining have more boob on show!!

Hmm, fridge is an extremely good point, there. Has she been offered the use of a fridge? I wonder if this could all be a result of miscommunication. She hasn't been offered a fridge, so she has sorted it out her own way?

I would say there is a difference between consideration and arranging your life entirely around work. But it's a grey area, and very much to personal taste and how flexible you find your baby is.

I think it's inappropriate and not the time.

I breastfed all my children and believe it's a natural thing that every mother has the right to do. BUT that doesn't mean that it can or should be done anywhere, just the same as you wouldn't squat down and take a wee at work because it's "natural".

Whilst at college, your students should be getting on with their work professionally and doing their own activities such as going to the toilet, expressing milk etc in their own time.

At work my work is more important...

My children matter to me but how I feed them is not the concern of my employer. Making arrangements for expressing is more than enough consideration - particularly since at six months this is a choice this mother is making. Good for her and all that but it's really not the same as a newborn.

As an employer with 30 members of staff, this kind of thing would be absolutely unacceptable here. And we actually don't have any spare space to make into an expressing room so if anyone was going to do it they'd need to book a meeting room and then be prepared to vacate it when it was needed for a meeting.

If you wouldn't express during a meeting at work - and I suspect very few people would - then you shouldn't express during group work at college.