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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think faith schools should be banned?

625 replies

fluffymouse · 26/06/2014 23:48

Not just because they aren't inclusive or diverse, but also because of the local impact.

My nearest school is a faith school. Every day when I drive to work, I see dozens of cars parked along the street of the school with parents dropping off children. They park everywhere on a very narrow street including double yellow lines and the zig zag lines outside the school. It seems like nobody walks to this school, as it quite simply does not serve the local community.

Local people have no chance of sending their children to this school unless they are off the faith, and they have very strict criteria for this. Meanwhile locals also have a lot of congestion to put up with. There is obviously also a big environmental impact.

Aibu to think that state schools should be inclusive, and not exclusive based on faith grounds, as all tax payers are contributing towards their running costs?

OP posts:
unrealhousewife · 27/06/2014 07:57

YANBU

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 07:58

Therefore the evidence shows that actually by taking children from a wide catchment and being sited near a station, faith schools are an ecological benefit. Fact.

I can only assume you are joking.

ICanHearYou · 27/06/2014 07:58

being turned away from a hospital is one thing, being turned away because they have more people of a certain faith there is quite another.

Messygirl · 27/06/2014 08:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:00

I'd be okay with being turned away from any hospital if it was full. What else are they supposed to do - turf people out of their beds?!

No, you are missing the point. They select a patient's position on the waiting list by virtue of their faith. So, if you are not of the right faith, you will never get to the top of the waiting list. Whenever someone of the right faith needs a waiting list place, you get bumped down the list.

Its not just "being full"

SuburbanRhonda · 27/06/2014 08:00

koala, the school I referred to in my post, with 17 admissions criteria of which number 17 is children whose parents aren't religious, is full - of children of religious parents.

That is why they do not accept children whose parents are not religious. Publishing admissions criteria exempts them from any suggestion that they do not accept children whose parents aren't religious. On paper, they accept them. They know, and the local community knows, they do not accept them.

And as I said upthread, they can refuse to take Looked After Children who are not baptised Catholics if the school becomes full after admitting all baptised Catholic children under criteria 1-9. How can that be right?

Messygirl · 27/06/2014 08:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:02

being turned away from a hospital is one thing, being turned away because they have more people of a certain faith there is quite another.

Eh?

It doesn't matter what faith the people in the hospital are. If it's full, it's full.

SuffolkNWhat · 27/06/2014 08:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OddBoots · 27/06/2014 08:06

The first move isn't to ban them, the first move is to ban state schools from using faith in their selection criteria. If the faith groups then want to stop supporting the school then depending on the ownership of that particular school there should be an agreement over the course of several years for the state to buy out the interest.

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:09

They select a patient's position on the waiting list by virtue of their faith. So, if you are not of the right faith, you will never get to the top of the waiting list. Whenever someone of the right faith needs a waiting list place, you get bumped down the list. Its not just "being full"

Same happens with some hospitals. If I want elective knee surgery at the nice new multi-squillion dollar hospital down the road from my house, which happens to specialize in maternity, I will keep getting bumped down the list by women with high-risk pregnancies. Until I give up and accept that I'm having my surgery at a less desirable hospital. Because that hospital was not tailored to me, and I am not its priority.

Minesril · 27/06/2014 08:10

So you're complaining about people driving their children to school...as you drive to work?

You're being ridiculous.

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:11

Same happens with some hospitals. If I want elective knee surgery at the nice new multi-squillion dollar hospital down the road from my house, which happens to specialize in maternity, I will keep getting bumped down the list by women with high-risk pregnancies.

Er... how is selecting based on medical need the same as selecting on religious faith?

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:13

Koala, the problem is that the 'other school' is likely to be much worse sad

Yes, I know. Which is unfortunate, but it's why some of the comments on here seem like sour grapes to me.

Taking Catholic schools as an example: the Catholic church set up its own education system because it believes Catholicism should be an integral part of a child's schooling. Why on earth would they not then give preference to children from Catholic families?

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:15

Er... how is selecting based on medical need the same as selecting on religious faith?

Because the point of a religious school is to support parents in bringing up children in a religious faith.

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:15

And?

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:16

OwlCapone, do you really not see why a Catholic school would not think that Catholic parents needed to send their child there more than non-Catholic parents do?

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:18

There is absolutely no similarity between choosing to treat a patient in greater need of medical treatment and choosing to treat a patient based on religion.

KoalaDownUnder · 27/06/2014 08:19

What are you talking about? Nobody said there was!

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:19

OwlCapone, do you really not see why a Catholic school would not think that Catholic parents needed to send their child there more than non-Catholic parents do?

Not at all. However, the state should not be paying for it.

Happydaysatlast · 27/06/2014 08:20

Faith is for home.

Education, learning, questioning and probing ideas and opinions should be in schools so children get a chance to evaluate and form their own ideas and beliefs.

Indoctrination if any faith should be banned in our schools.

Totally pissed me off when my local schools were C/E. Why should my local school have a faith at all. Why should my children be forced to pray to Jesus? Or any God.

How on earth anyone can agree with both integration and diversity but support faith schools is beyond belief.

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:21

You did. When asked whether you would be be bumped down the waiting list for hospital treatment in favour of a patient in greater medical need and that this was no different to being bumped down it on the basis on faith.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 27/06/2014 08:22

If faith schools were banned then the cost to the community for education children would rise. Church schools often have a significant amount of funding coming from the church.

OwlCapone · 27/06/2014 08:23

Sorry, that was garbled!

I described a waiting list where you would be bumped down in favour of patients of a certain faith. You said that you would be bumped in favour of a "high risk pregnancy" and so it was done all the time. To me, this says you think they are the same.

Bluetroublethree · 27/06/2014 08:23

Govt Edict: "all religious studies will be banned in state schools."

Catholic Church "Fuck you. We own the land, we own a proportion of the buildings, we employ the teachers and our kids receive LESS of a subsidy than other schools. But ok, we'll close, and you, the state, have to find land and premises to educate all the kids. A couple of million of them."

Govt Response "Ahhh. Yes. Well, as you were."