to think faith schools should be banned?

[fluffymouse]

Not just because they aren't inclusive or diverse, but also because of the local impact.

My nearest school is a faith school. Every day when I drive to work, I see dozens of cars parked along the street of the school with parents dropping off children. They park everywhere on a very narrow street including double yellow lines and the zig zag lines outside the school. It seems like nobody walks to this school, as it quite simply does not serve the local community.

Local people have no chance of sending their children to this school unless they are off the faith, and they have very strict criteria for this. Meanwhile locals also have a lot of congestion to put up with. There is obviously also a big environmental impact.

Aibu to think that state schools should be inclusive, and not exclusive based on faith grounds, as all tax payers are contributing towards their running costs?

[Lesshastemorespeed]

If faith schools selected by faith alone, they would be very empty places. Faith is part of the criteria, but like all schools, they just need bums on seats. You don't have to go to church to get into a faith school unless it's oversubscribed. Also, I think that faith schools serve that churches community very well. Religion and places of worship are often very important parts of our wider local communities whether you are religious or not.

[BanjoKazooie]

YANBU. All schools should be secular. Tbh It saddens and amazes me that they aren't.

Religion in a general sense should be taught in schools but worship should be done outside of schools.

[VampyreofTimeandMemory]

well, I don't know about that for a reason but I don't see the point in faith schools anyway - what is it, exactly?

[Lesshastemorespeed]

obviously They can teach about religion vampyre. Most do teach about different religions, but some only teach their own religion.

[WooWooOwl]

My children went to a CofE primary school.

There was absolutely nothing about faith in their admissions criteria, and they do very much serve the local community.

I think there are reasons for getting rid of faith schools, but this isn't one of them. I don't think children should be obliged to go their closest school simply because it's closest, I believe in parents having choice. I know that doesn't always happen, but at least the idea is there.

[pootlebug]

I agree that taxpayer funded faith schools should be banned - or at the very least should have to select their pupils in the same way as every other school in the LEA.

But not because of a parking and congestion problem.

[Hakluyt]

All you have to do is apply the same argument to a hospital.

Do you think that an NHS hospital should be able to refuse to treat somebody because they don't go to Church?

Of course you don't.

So you don't agree with faith schools then. Simple.

[AggressiveBunting]

You don't have to go to church to get into a faith school unless it's oversubscribed.

Yes, I think this is a very London problem. Certainly in the area of South London where I used to live the preferred 2 primary schools were RC and the criteria were exceptionally strict- church every week and recommendation by your priest. They drew from a broad catchment. Conversely, where my mum taught, out in the sticks, the first criteria for their CofE village school was "lives in the village". Religious belief was way down and only used in the case of being oversubscibed which it never was.

[OwlCapone]

People have a right to a faith and how to educate their children.

If someone wants a faith based education for their child they should pay for private education. State education should not be allowed to discriminate on the basis of faith.

Imagine that your local school is rated outstanding. You live right next door. The other nearest schools are all only satisfactory. Unfortunately, your children can't go to the outstanding school as they go to church and this is a (mythical) school that only accepts non religious applicants. If you have been baptised or attend church, you can't go.

[Cric]

YABU
1)faith schools do have a catchment area. For example the one I work in has 50% of its children that are from another faith.
2) they are still required to teach other faiths, inclusions and talk about different communities. Again the school I work at has a wide range of children from different faith background and are all celebrated. I have had displays about Chinese New Year, Hinduism, Islam etc etc.
3) all schools have parking issues. It is not the schools fault if parents don't drive. All schools can do is encourage people to walk. In all the places I have lived every school had caused parking problems.
4) you don't have to go to a faith school. Each school has a different feel to it, different values and ways of doing things. What is right for you, will be right for another family.

To be inclusive we have to treat everyone differently! Some people want a faith school and some people don't. The answer is simple..... Don't go to a faith school if that doesn't fit your family and go of it does.

[Sweetmotherfudger]

Yanbu. I'm a Christian and went to a faith school. I think it's bonkers to mix up education and beliefs. Get rid of all faith schools to be under state control and have a good RE syllabus with a balance of all religions. It's parents who can offer their children spiritual guidance not a school.

My child will have to go to a faith school but I would rather the faith element was taken out.

[Cric]

Don't walk not drive.
Sorry that I didn't check before sending!
I wasn't going to go apply to my school because of the faith element as I am not part of that faith. After looking around I realised it was one of the most inclusive schools of ALL children that I have ever been to and have been there for many happy years.

[OwlCapone]

Some people want a faith school and some people don't. The answer is simple..... Don't go to a faith school if that doesn't fit your family and go of it does

Lolol. No, it isn't that simple.

There is no secular education option available at all so those who don't want "daily worship" have no choice at all.

[AggressiveBunting]

This problem only arises because a disproportionate number of outstanding and good schools are faith schools. If they were all crap, no-one would give a damn.

[MissDuke]

I disagree with faith schools too. I think it is really important that children mix with peers from a variety of backgrounds. Ip parents want their children to be brought up with religion, why cannot they not teach the child that themselves? Take them to church, bible club etc themselves? I don't see why the school should have to do it for them. Surely the curriculum is packed enough without adding in all that extra religious stuff. I am in NI, there is enough of a divide here without separating the children educationally on top of everything else.

Parking - this happens everywhere surely. I rarely pass a school that doesn't have congestion around it. I live only a mile from school, and used to walk everyday, but now it is mega tight for me to get to work on time so I need to take the car down too and head straight on to work :-(

[williaminajetfighter]

YANBU. Faith schools are a bizarre notion. The state should provide standard secular schools for all with generic RE as standard. Parents/families can do what they like at home in their own time. As for your concern about people coming from afar, it is irritating but the same thing happens with most exclusive or private schools. Loads of yummy mummies driving for an hour in their 4x4 to drop off Tristan and Isabelle.

Yes we should be encouraging a world where people live and study locally within their communities because it's better for the environment and more conducive to building strong communities. But until policy or the cost of petrol gets prohibitive there will always be people willing to drive long distances.

[OwlCapone]

If they were all crap, no-one would give a damn.

They would if people couldn't get a place for their child at the local outstanding "non faith" school which gave priority to non-religious children.

[OwlCapone]

I think that the OPs complaint about parking is irrelevant. Parking like a twat and being "lazy" is not dependent on faith. I do get the argument that a school which primarily selects on another major criteria other than distance is not going to be serving the local community though.

[CharmQuark]

I do not believe that state funded schools should be allowed to discriminate against anyone on grounds of religion for admission.

Can you imagine any other tax funded facility that did?

I strongly believe that any school funded by the state should be secular, too.

[ICanHearYou]

Not once in the OP does it mention a particular faith of schools, she was clearly speaking generally and could have been discussing a wide variety of faiths.

So the Professionally Offended of you can get down off your high horses.

I am in a position where I have found out that my son will be attending a faith school, I picked it because it was close to us, had great ofsted and lots of space. I have since found out it is a CofE faith school where he will do bible study twice a week and go to church to worship twice a week.

It's done now and I am happy he is going there but I am nervous about some of the things he will learn. School should absolutely be secular, with the exclusion of perhaps fee paying private schools.

[ICanHearYou]

Parking is just a school issue round here btw, I am going to walk my eldest to school and back every day and the look one of the mums gave me when I told her was one of total shock and amazement, like the thought of walking a whole 1.2 miles each morning twice was just ridiculous.

[CharmQuark]

AggressiveBunting: no , the problem is that it is wrong in principle.
I have access to outstanding community schools.

But there is a problem where a family cannot attend their 3 most local schools (good or mediocre) because they all discriminate on grounds of the parents' religion.

[AggressiveBunting]

They would if people couldn't get a place for their child at the local outstanding "non faith" school which gave priority to non-religious children.

I take your point, but isnt the issue that not going to church takes zero effort/ forethought, whereas attending church every week for 4 years to get into X school is the exclusive preserve of parents who are highly invested in their children's education. Therefore, faith schools promote a demographic bias which means they cream off a certain type of pupil. I think that's the most legitimate argument against them- that if the criteria didnt exist, all schools in the area would have a more mixed demographic.

On that basis, I think they should be able to exist (if only for practical reasons- the church owns a lot of the buildings) but that they should have to have distance to school gate as the primary criteria.

[AggressiveBunting]

That is not, of course to say, that parents who dont jump through the hoops are not invested, but that those who do, are, by definition highly invested and motivated. ( a venn diagram would come in handy right now)

[JassyRadlett]

Spot on, charm.

OP, YANBU. Faith schools - and especially selection based on faith - is hopelessly divisive.

No one stopping people from getting a faith education for your child if you're willing to pay for it. But the current system is preventing my child from getting a local education full stop. What's the justification for that?