To get annoyed when parents spell their kids name wrong

[HelloSteve]

...and then they get annoyed when people constantly spell their names "wrong" (aka the right way)? Or buy personalised items with their names spelt their way?

Not really a big deal I know, but I what do you expect when you give your child a name spelled in a way to be yoo-niq?

Over the past couple of weeks I've heard of a Emma-Leigh, a Sophy and a Jordyn. I can't help thinking 'poor kids they're going to have to go through their whole lives having to correct people'. It seems people don't think about that though.

I know a woman who has two grown up daughters called Jemma (I assume they meant for that to be Gemma) and a Hollie (again, I assume Holly) and she always gets annoyed when people don't ask and just assume they're spelt Gemma and Holly, but I don't know why. She should have expected that/be used to that now? I know she would constantly get irritated when the kids were at school and received Christmas cards/party invites with their names spelt wrong but honestly I have little sympathy. What was she expecting when she spelt her kids names wrong?

Your thoughts?

brdgrl didn't specify Black American culture

Erm I did in the passage that was being quoted there by riders - but as I have since pointed out, this is just as true of the UK.

The racism and cultural myopia on this thread is absolutely disgusting. It's shameful, and sickening. I am going to leave the thread, I think, because talking to ignorant people who refuse to even acknowledge their own ignorance or open their minds when presented with a well-documented explanation of a phenomenon (preferring to stick to "well, I think it's dumb!") is far too depressing. UKIP all the way, eh?

Black Americans don't have always have clear "roots" to "return to". The knowledge of their origins is one of the many things that was taken away. Using an "African" (as if it were all monolithic culture) name that may or may not have been a genuine part of your own heritage is arguably less "real" than an invented name which is part of the current culture into which your child is born.

People have been enslaved and murdered and seen their own traditions systematically destroyed, their children forcibly removed and renamed with "correct" names...and there are people on this earth still willing to call them "daft" and "ignorant" because they wish to make up their own names. It's repulsive."

How is that not referring to Black culture?

Why on earth would somebody find Adelle or Adel offensive?

Not only are "made up" names looked down upon (by some people) because they seem "black" here in the US , also a lot of classic names. Dominic, Dante, Octavia, Tristan...all seen as whatever the US version of "chavvy" would be. Because they're used in the African American community.

throwing off the oppressive essentialist shackles of the colonising culture

the way I read the thread, this is also pretty much brdgrl's general response to the poster talking about the white English middle-class child called Samual.

Dominic, Dante, Octavia, Tristan...all seen as whatever the US version of "chavvy" would be.

Isn't it ironic how relative it all is. In France, it's English/American-sounding names that are looked down on for being our equivalent of "chavvy" - Stephen, Jessica, Kelly...

It is! Tristan especially is "white trash"...speaking of this thread I know a girl named Trystin! Or Tristyn, I can't quite remember.

Stephen, Jessica, Kelly are looked down on here too. Not for being "chavvy" though, more for being "80's". :)

What about pop stars and other celebs and their naming conventions?

I just don't believe that people name their babies to make a cultural, political or race 'anti' statement. Which is probably just as well for DS, considering his racial/religious heritage.

There are fashions in names, as well as naming conventions.

Some people name kids after relatives, pop stars babies (how many little Brooklyns are there these days?), actors, etc.

Fashions come and go, and yes, some people make names up or misspell names. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I won't assume a childs name is spelled oddly for political reasons.

Name your child after a poet, a leader, a writer, a philosopher - someone you admire and look up to, but as 'anti' something? Why would you do that if the 'people' you are doing it against haven't a clue? I'm not sure if I am 'people' considering my family make-up. Probably not.

One of my sisters changed her name spelling when she was a teenager to a spelling of her name she found and liked in Chaucer. I changed the spelling (first letter) of mine as a teen as my initials were a bit embarassing.

I worked with a woman who had an unusual name - I commented on it and she said 'yes, dad thought he had made it up, but it turns out it was a real name anyway'.

And who hasn't raised an eyebrow at some names - oh come on, Apple (in this day and age)? What if there is a revival of religious slogan names like the american pioneers, such as 'If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned' (son of 'Praise-God').

If you look at school registration books from Victorian days you will see some very odd/unusual names that certainly would have raised eyebrown then but just haven't lasted the test of time.

There was a flurry at my (US based) sisters school of children with names which are foreign words. So she had an Alora, Aloha, Chemise, Coupane (nor sure about spelling - but 'chum/pal' in french)...

Why on earth would somebody find Adelle or Adel ?
Not offensive, just ugly.

I just don't believe that people name their babies to make a cultural, political or race 'anti' statement.

Not everybody on the planet. Some people choose a name that they like which also makes a point about their cultural background (in fact isn't that quite common?)

this is also pretty much brdgrl's general response to the poster talking about the white English middle-class child called Samual.

I must have missed those posts. However, I agree it's all relative. In 40 years somebody will be posting "Daisy - I assume they meant for that to be Daisee".

I can guarantee that some people will continue to be all "think of the children" about names and then look silly 5 years later (or even sometimes on this thread immediately) and other people will continue to name their children what they want without caring tuppence about other people's opinions.

People will continue to dislike and change their given name whether they are called Catherine or Fruitbat.

Names like Kaiden are sneered upon in the uk because they are popular with the working classes, rather than anything inherently awful about the name or spelling. Looked-down-upon names vary by country and even area of country because it's all caught up with class-based decisions about taste rather than anything to do with the actual names themselves. Tristan sounds naice and middle class to English ears, but shouts 'white trash' to Americans. The name itself makes little difference. Similarly middle class tinkering with spelling is all well and good, but any other tinkering is just wrong and uncouth.

CheerfulYank, Tristan is a rather posh-trendy name in France! (that's how I'd perceive it anyway :)

Yeah the examples I gave of "chavvy" American names betray my age, LOL. It's definitely the American-ness that's looked down on rather than the 80s factor, though - it's because they're names given by people who watch US soaps. So really it's a classist thing.

(psssst! hey, riders! There are black people in the UK too! AND the English were slavers!)

Specialised subject the bleeding obvious?

Samual's mum wasn't making a statement other than she wanted him to be "different". Stop reading stuff that just isn't there.

"Giving your child a stupid spellings of a conventional name = throwing off the oppressive essentialist shackles of the colonising culture = the funniest thing I have read in MN in years

Yup.

This is becoming more and more Pythonesque. It's too silly.

If only OP's (including this one) and posters who once educated on the names they have declared as "made up/misspelt", that these are the original spellings/culturally accurate, would just hold their hands up and say "ok, I got it wrong, I am a know-nothing twat", they would get a lot more respect.

I say that as someone who CBA to any longer justify the spelling of my DD's middle name "Catharine", to know nothings, when they ask "can't you spell?".

Educate yourself beyond this century Middle England and lots of issues will no longer be of irritation/annoyance and puzzlement to you.

All names are made up. I'm perfectly free however to think
Adele looks prettier written down than Adel or Adelle
Lindsey looks prettier than Lindzee
Daisy looks prettier than Dayzee
Caitlin looks prettier than Katelyn
Jane looks prettier than Jayne

But how do you choose the 'right' traditional spelling of a name? How far back do you go? If you try to trace back, say a saints name, then you could find yourself back to latin or greek. Catherine/Catharine/Katherin/e/Katrin/Catriona/Katerina, etc has many spellings, all 'correct' - I haven't come across a 'unique' one yet. It's like Anne and Ann - noone bats an eyelid at either as they are both used.

Most people do understand that names gp way back and spellings change, and you can't know the history of every name, but there is a convention that Amy is usually a-m-y and not Amee, Aimee, Aime, Aimey.

The reason why someone would 'make up' a spelling is open to debate - Ahymee? A-mee? Amey?

I don't think that everyone who chooses an uncommon spelling pours over acient texts or has a wide knowledge of history/literature - maybe they just happen on a name or spelling that already exists?

So Catherine comes from Katharos (so says wiki). I never knew that!

Let me be more specific. Giving your white middle-class English child a stupid name = throwing off the oppressive essentiallist blah blah colonial blah = absolutely the funniest thing I have read on MN in ages.

And of course spellings are normative and historically and culturally specific. Did all you lot busy 'educating' people get your 2:2s from the University of the Bleeding Obvious?

That fact doesn't mean it's wrong to think it advisable to choose the normative spelling rather than inflicting a lifetime of swimming against the tide on your child. For all you know they might be Saffy to your Edie and not appreciate being singled out as a special snowflake

But what is wrong with Samual? Even though "Behindthename" is my new favourite website, I wouldn't know all the usual variations of a random name. In London it's more likely than not that somebody's background won't be White British and fairly likely that they were born outside the UK. If I met a Samual I would just note "Samual with an A" and think nothing more of it. For all I know that is the usual spelling in another culture. I wouldn't assume Samual was spelt with a second A to be different any more than I would assume that Catharine was spelt with a second A to be different.

Even if I go to the fount of all knowledge, 'Behind the Name' and can't find Samual why would I care?

Spellings in the uk evolve through linguistic changes through people migrating. There are very few true English names, as it is dominated by Latin, Gaelic, and Germanic languages. There is no right and wrong, only convention.

Some people want to give their child a name that everyone understands and doesn't involve a double take when mentioned. Understandable. They choose a traditional name so they pick a generally conventional name that may have slightly different spellings depending on their route into English. They might look into it and use the version that relates to their own origins.

Some people want a name because it sounds nice or looks nice and don't care where it comes from. They pick a name from a very extensive list that babynamepicker.com throws up. Understandable but a bit risky.

Some people do that research and then deliberately alter the spelling further for the purpose of uniqueness. IMO selfish but understandable.

Some people deliberately choose a name reflecting their culture or country of origin, ancestors. Understandable but may be hard to pronounce or have a different meaning here and now.

Some people whose culture and origin have been stripped away from them through being dehumanised and enslaved historically want to create a whole new name culture because theirs has been stripped from them, (lest we forget). Absolutely understandable but makes a big statement.

Some people have traditions about naming, eg the Swedes, the Scots use the mother's maiden name etc. understandable but places importance on family loyalty.

Ultimately it is a choice made by a parent about their child who is an individual. That's why generally people stick to neutral names so their children can create their identity themselves. Whatever our motives, I believe It should be in the best interests of the child, not the parent.

But people ought to think it through and be honest about it.

I think you mean:

"absolutely the funniest thing I have typed on MN in ages"

Nobody has suggested that middle class white people's name choices have anything to do with resisting colonial oppression - except you in that sentence.

"So Catherine comes from Katharos (so says wiki). I never knew that!"

Catharine is the only recognised original English spelling, the first Women's hospital in Liverpool is in Catharine Street, we have big family connection to this and Crown Street, but my choosing of that spelling would probably get smirked at, by one of these Know-nothing Know-alls.

Surely the Cambridge elite that populate MN would recognize and approve of Catharine?

Of course, if you can demonstrate that the alternative spelling shows off your MC credentials as a well-educated type, it would be 'acceptable'. It's only those alternatives that don't conform to middle class values that are to be discouraged.