To think it would benefit my 2 sons if their grandad's house didn't have to be sold in the future for care home fees

[supersec]

We have 2 sons (aged 16 and 18). Everyone knows about the dire prospects of any teenagers today ever getting on the property ladder. My sons have always been close to their paternal grandparents. Grandmother died 4 years ago after having Alzheimer's for 7 years. She ended up in a home for last 6 months as my father in law looked after her at home.

He is now 81 and has been diagnosed with dementia. We own our house outright. My husband has one brother who is married, nearly 5o with no children. He owns 2 houses outright, one which he rents out.

We save extremely hard for our future and hopefully house deposits for our sons but the outlook is very bleak from reading the papers/watching the news and I find the outlook for their future very depressing - will they be living with us until they are 40

After the diagnosis my brother in law said he thought it would be a good idea to get his dad's bank balance down as he has nearly £90,000 in the bank. He and my husband withdrew £3,000 each a few months ago with my father in law's approval But I think it is too late for this to make any difference to any possible future care needs. Even if it was reduced to under £23,000 which I understand is the threshold limit for contributing towards your care, the care home would say the house had to be sold.

I am sure my father in law would like to see his only grandchildren live in the house when he passes away, rather than it being sold for care home fees. My brother in law has no children to worry about, has a brilliant final salary pension and a very large bank balance.

I don't know why he came up with the idea to start reducing the bank balance when it will make no difference to his dad having to fund his care if the time comes. No more money has been withdrawn yet but my husband is burying his head in the sand over this and is just agreeing with his older brother.

I do not want a penny from any estate, I would just love to see our sons get a helping hand for the future but this would be via us as the will is 50/50 between my husband and his brother.

I am a very positive person and don't get depressed about much but I feel utter despair at the housing prospects for today's teenagers.

Please tell me if I am being out of order .

No, OP, it seems that you are resentful and jealous about not inheriting. And that you're really quite selfish and entitled and unpleasant.

"I would have loved to have seen him have an amazing interesting life and spent every penny he had enjoying himself but unfortunately he has lived a very frugal life and spent all his time since retirement (even when his wife was alive) staring at 4 walls."

Wow.

Perhaps that's the way he wants to live his life.

Perhaps he is not a materialistic, mercenary, grasping, selfish person which is why you don't understand his way of living.

If he had spent of all of his assets, you'd probably be here complaining about how he hadn't bothered leaving any inheritance for your precious sons.

"It seems to me that people are resentful and jealous at people inheriting. They would rather old people save and give to the government rather than it gong to their families and the mentality seems to be if we are having a tough time economically then so should our bloody kids as we'll."

Butcher won't be giving it to the government, he will be using it to pay for his care.

If a parent signs their house over they have to pay capital gains tax, then inheritance tax later. So about 75% goes to tax.

Our sons know absolutely NOTHING about their gran dad's financial situation and that's the wAy it is going to stay. They probBly think he is penniless

We were just lucky buying when we did in 1998 when there was a housing slump, but I want to avoid if possible my sons renting for years. What's wrong with thAt

Im not jealous im disgusted that relatives think its ok to hide money and think its ok to not pay for care and children need a hand out of eldetly relatives, what your husband and his brother is doing is illegal what you are suggesting is greedy let your fil die first eh before you give your sons a hand up the property ladder eh

Wondered when you were going to trot out that line OP!

Despite your poor arguments and wrong impression, there are plenty of us that feel what you want to do is wrong despite either being wealthy ourselves or likely to inherit a lot of money. What we won't do however is act like you are or try and evade inheritance tax or go after our family's money while they are still alive.

our situation you mean, your father-in-law's situation?

They would rather old people save and give to the government rather than it gong to their families No, we would rather the money he has saved all of his be spent on his care and comfort and not your son's.

You can get the same care for free. I found that out when my mil was in a home.

I inherited because my DF stayed in good health until very close to his death. If he hadn't then I would have wanted the money spent on a good care home where he was happy and well looked after. I had already made my way in the world as had my brother down to the support my parents had given us as children and young adults. I didn't want anymore from my DF.

Where do you think the money for care home fees comes from? The Government don't earn money they just take it off one lot of people and give it to another.

"It seems to me that people are resentful and jealous at people inheriting"

It seems to me that you're judging others by your own standards and making allegations about the reasons for their motivations and morals because you don't like being called on yours.

Could it not be that people are resentful of those who steal from the taxpayer, who are willing to take money from an old man with dementia - and not just any old man but a close relative at that - and who are willing to see a close relative experience second rate care in their last years in order to line their DC's pockets?

It's not fucking FREE OP! Someone is paying for it FFS! Are you really this stupid?!

My FIL before he died left half the house to Mil and other half in trust split to the 5 kids so neither value was apparently around the level it would have to be sold for MILs care home fees. Not sure how it works though.

So you bought in 1998 and you own outright, and the only way you can imagine your poor sons are going to be able to buy a house rather than face the dire situations of renting is for you to get your sticky mitts on this old man's money, and for the tax payer to fund his care so you get to keep his hoards? You beggar belief!

Why is it selfish to try and avoid care home fees because you have an asset but it's not selfish to try and avoid care home fees by staying at home with your children when you could be working, or by having children when you will need to rely on benefits to pay for them when you could be working and educating yourself, or by renting somewhere nice when you could choose to buy somewhere that you'd rather not live?

It's the double standards that pisses me off. It's ok for some people to go through life taking huge amounts out of the state and barely contributing anything financially, but it's immoral for others to do exactly the same thing just because they've made different choices.

I get that paying for elderly care is incredibly expensive, but if everyone was treated fairly by their own government and given the basics that they actually need, then this society would be a much nicer place and there wouldn't be so many of us that use tax planning to avoid contributing more than a fair share.

"You can get the same care for free."

No. You. Fucking. Can't.

Please see my previous posts for an explanation.

I bet you think poor people who claim benefits are scroungers, don't you OP? But your (potentially) poor son's shouldn't have to support themselves? And your rich FIL shouldn't have to pay his own care home fees?

My son rents, what's wrong with that? He uses his own hard earned cash to pay his own way and I couldn't be prouder of him.

I never really understand this. These are people who spent their life being independant- not reliant on the state to tell them where to live or what to spend their money on- and that was likely a choice They made happily- a positive choice they are proud of.

But then when they are in their last years they're desperate to "go on the council"- basically move into a council home. No choice in their level of care or location, and desperate not to pay for of themselves. It seems such a strange about turn. These are quite often people who would've had a very negative view of "benefit scroungers" in days gone by but are now desperate to join them.

To me paying for your old age is just part of life- why would you suddenly expect someone else to pay for it?

Everyone should make sure they have under £23k in the bank when they retire and sign their house over. I have never claimed a benefit in my life, up to now rarely used the nhs so I will do everything I can to avoid care home fees and give my grandchildren a start in life. I will get that same care home for free probably.

If that makes me immoral and money grabbing and evil then so that be!!!!

WooWoo you seem to think that looking after our most vulnerable somehow penalises our more fortunate.

There will always be a minority that swing the lead - benefit fraud, expenses scandal etc. That doesn't mean the majority should suffer.

Ok I will be a benefit scrounger too!

Mumsnet posters must really live in a different world to the people I know

Everyone should make sure they have under £23k in the bank when they retire and sign their house over.

Brilliant. Yes, we'll all ensure our savings are under £23k and the houses we own outright are signed over .

There is no way around it and taking money from his personal account will only mean that he will have to sell his home sooner rather than later.

Depending on the area you live in you - for an excellent home (I presume you want the best for him ..... it will be cheaper in a very poor home) you will be looking at £800 per week. Therefore with the money in his account you would be able to pay for 2 years care. He is lucky to have enough money/assets to afford a lovely home to live out his last years instead of being thrown into an awful institution with safeguarding issues left/right and centre.

Depending on his needs you may also get a helping hand from your local PCT.

Again depending on his needs if he was funded by the CCG there are no contributions to be made by the family.

Your attitude is terrible though. I would want my father to receive the best care in the last years of his life and would be more than willing to forego any inheritance to make this happen. Your children need to go out and make it themselves.

Maybe think more about your father in law .......

Mumsnet posters must really live in a different world to the people I know

Yes! Thankfully.