To think it would benefit my 2 sons if their grandad's house didn't have to be sold in the future for care home fees

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We have 2 sons (aged 16 and 18). Everyone knows about the dire prospects of any teenagers today ever getting on the property ladder. My sons have always been close to their paternal grandparents. Grandmother died 4 years ago after having Alzheimer's for 7 years. She ended up in a home for last 6 months as my father in law looked after her at home.

He is now 81 and has been diagnosed with dementia. We own our house outright. My husband has one brother who is married, nearly 5o with no children. He owns 2 houses outright, one which he rents out.

We save extremely hard for our future and hopefully house deposits for our sons but the outlook is very bleak from reading the papers/watching the news and I find the outlook for their future very depressing - will they be living with us until they are 40

After the diagnosis my brother in law said he thought it would be a good idea to get his dad's bank balance down as he has nearly £90,000 in the bank. He and my husband withdrew £3,000 each a few months ago with my father in law's approval But I think it is too late for this to make any difference to any possible future care needs. Even if it was reduced to under £23,000 which I understand is the threshold limit for contributing towards your care, the care home would say the house had to be sold.

I am sure my father in law would like to see his only grandchildren live in the house when he passes away, rather than it being sold for care home fees. My brother in law has no children to worry about, has a brilliant final salary pension and a very large bank balance.

I don't know why he came up with the idea to start reducing the bank balance when it will make no difference to his dad having to fund his care if the time comes. No more money has been withdrawn yet but my husband is burying his head in the sand over this and is just agreeing with his older brother.

I do not want a penny from any estate, I would just love to see our sons get a helping hand for the future but this would be via us as the will is 50/50 between my husband and his brother.

I am a very positive person and don't get depressed about much but I feel utter despair at the housing prospects for today's teenagers.

Please tell me if I am being out of order .

Woowoo I suspect that a lot of people react to this badly because they have personally lost out in the past or know that they will do soon.

Years of media benefit bashing has resulted in people forgetting that benefits and tax allowances are designed to make the country more efficient and successful. The government don't do it to give us a free ride, they do it because it is in the national interest to have healthy, working, child producing, educated, productive, just, caring and compassionate citizens.

It is not in the national interest to have people producing children they can't afford at all. I accept a need for working tax credits unfortunately, as a top up for a low full time. wage, but there should be no need to pay people per child on top of that.

The country is already over populated, we have enough people unemployed and enough immigration that we really don't need to pay people to have children. They do not make the country more efficient or more successful.

No one is forced to have children they can't afford, but plenty of people are forced to become old and require care, it's a fact of life. Children are a choice.

The birth rate in the uk is dropping actually.

Under 2 children per person. That's not sustainable. People don't just die of old age.

It's gone up in the past two years but is way down from 1960.

Woowoo you're just wrong. The country needs more young people to work to pay all our pensions. Look at Japan to see the alternative.

A quarter of the increase recently was to foreign born mothers, many of whom may leave when the children start school. That bits anecdotal though, what a Polish woman said to me.

Id be more worried about how your sons are going to turn out with you as a role model

Money doesn't buy class my love.

The country needs more young people to work to pay all our pensions.

That only works if the jobs are there and the population is motivated and educated enough to hold down those jobs. At the moment there aren't enough jobs even if all those of working age were employable enough to take them.

So while we do need younger people to pay the pensions of the older people, we don't need people to have children they can't afford to pay for. If money was saved on child tax credits, it could be spent on pensions.

The population is getting older and that needs to be paid for somehow, but it just doesn't make sense to think we pay for that by paying people to have children.

There are enough people in the world that if we ever have a highly unlikely labour shortage, then we could recruit from overseas.

In 1960 we needed more workers, there had just been a war. But that's why so many more women are in work now compared to back then.

We need young people to pay the social care costs of the ageing population!

There are some horrific stats around the increasing costs of social care vs the decrease in funding....

Hhmmm, if you are this desperate to help your sons, why don't you remortgage your own home? Your post evokes vultures over a sick man's estate. Seriously, the decent thing would be to let him have access to ALL of his money to ensure his well being in his last few years. And educate your sons to take charge of their own destiny.

There are plenty of jobs, perhaps not well distributed, but there is always a certain amount of unemployment due to job changing. We cover that with taxes as and when it needs to be paid for.

I do think the sell your home for fees policy is lacking: I think one should be able to sign the house over for the housing of social tenants instead, with it returning to ownership of family in 25 years. Massive lack of social housing available. If people say no, they can sell instead. People having safe, affordable homes is hugely beneficial to economy and state. There will be houses not suitable for this because they are more akin to mansions but they are few, and often renting those out privately would pay much social care anyway.

I can see why you think this OP, but truth is your sons can work and earn; we barely have enough have a country to help those who CAN'T work and earn, plus the many on top who will never get the chance because people outnumber jobs and it won't get better with technology and the like.

I have a child who won't work, a disabled one. I wish he could, with all my heart, but it's not going to happen. If there's no benefits system left, he would be left to die. That simple. Our older son is disabled but will be able to work, he won;t be able to be a carer as well.

Whereas your own home is nice and great and all that but not essential (I speak as a former home owner turned tenant).

'You only have to look on here to see how many people use tax credits to have children they can't afford. There are loads of threads with people asking for advice about child tax credits, even before they've had children, and plenty of people are more than willing to share advice about what people can claim. I don't see it as any different.' Not sure that sharing advice equates automatically to being willing to have kids you can't afford, and a great many people had kids they could afford and then needed help (carer then DH was made redundant so took enormous hit to income).

Its HIS money OP.

HIS.

HIS Investments, HIS earnings. HIS. ALL HIS.

If he needs it to make sure he can get care then thats fine, because its HIS.

If you and every other fucker drains all this poor buggers money who is going to care for him. You?

Sickening. Shame on you. He gets a diagnosis and you all start draining his money.

I sincerely hope the exact same thing happens to you when you are older.

Of course there will always be some unemployment, but there doesn't need to be as much as there is at the moment, especially for young people.

Even full employment wouldn't really help much if too high a percentage of jobs pay below the personal tax allowance.

I'm prepared to be open minded, but at the moment I really can't see how paying people to stay at home having children they can't afford is good for society.

And either way, if we can pay for people to have children they should be paying for themselves, then we can afford to pay for people to have elderly care they should be paying for themselves.

(PS- we won't inherit a house; my parents never owned, FIL has a new young fiancee and MIL sold hers to BIL. Our parents were sad not to have that to pass on but we don't mind; we really don't. We are adults, we make our own way, it's absolutely fine).

Woowoo do you really think all tax credit claimants think like that?

Heck many of us have teens; tax credits didn't even exist when kids were born (Family Credit did, but wasn't the same)

Peachy the sell your home for care policy has changed, due to come in next year is a far more reasonable system. Can't link, sorry.

Peachy, people do have children they can afford and then life's circumstances mean they can't afford them anymore. I get that, and in support a safety net for exactly that reason.

But when you have more than two children, you are drastically increasing your chances of needing to rely on a safety net in a big way. There really aren't that many people that can fully afford to have more than two children without some kind of state help.

There is a big difference between planning to have children knowing that you already claim benefits and that you will then need to claim more and being fully self sufficient until you get a run of bad luck after having children.

But if it's ok to have children when you can afford it and then take from the state if you can't, then it's got to be ok to pass on your wealth to your children when you can afford it and then take from the state if on the off chance you late need care.

As much as I disagree with child tax credits, that's not the point I'm trying to make here. The point I'm trying to make (which is not directly related to the OP as conversation has moved on) is that if it's ok for one section of society to make their own choices and then rely on the state if they need to, then it's got to be ok for another section of society to do the same.

That's good unreal (we're now in UK but not England so not quite in the loop as much as before)

I truly hate the expectation of a right to a financial inheritance. It feels awfully grabby to me. If you are lucky enough to be left something by a loved one after they no longer need it great, if not - ce la vie! Honestly I'd rather still have the loved one or at least things that specifically reminded me of them (I was left a completely worthless knickknack of my grandfathers but it means more to me than anything of any monetary value as it reminds me of him)

I have no problem with my house being sold to pay for my care in the future as basically I view it akin to moving house - albeit to a new home shared with others & carers. I wouldn't expect as a young person to move to a new home (either through choice or change in circumstances) and be able to keep my original home so why should I just because I'm old.
I'm not saying it isn't a hard thing to do but it's just one of those things you have to do. I say that having a DS & nieces & nephews who I'm sure won't end up living at home forever (I'll encourage them to at least camp in the garden after they are 20 )

I dislike the expectation of an inheritance too. It is grabby and horrible.

But expecting an inheritance from an older relative is not the same as wanting to do what you want with your own property and assets.

I don't want an inheritance from anyone else, but I do want the right to pass on what is mine to whoever I choose to pass it on to.

Wonky would you feel the same if you were scraping by in rented accommodation?

Woohoo owl you should write a book! I agree with everything you ever write.

Thank you!

I guess someone has to agree with me somewhere!

Yes I would feel the same. I haven't always had my own house and I have had some truly awful times scraping by, yet I have no expectation of getting anything from anybody else and I never have.