7 year old not allowed to attend a funeral.

[Rhian1]

Hi Mumsnet, long time lerker - 1st time posting.

My granddad passed away last week. We have talked about this very openly with our seven year old son, who is quite (i think) emotionally mature for his age.

We discussed the funeral, talked about what to expect and what will happen on the day, I believe he should attend.

However, after speaking to my grandmother (deceased spouse), she is amendment that he will not be allowed to go under any circumstances and if we do take him he will be asked to leave, even if that means me leaving as well.

I have tried talking to her, I believe this isn't her decision to make.

The funeral is some 120 miles away from our home, we have no options of childcare and I wish my husband to attend (for his own personal respects, and selfish reasons that I would like his support).

What do I do now?! I have prepared my son for this, how can I possibly tell him he cant go? Or that none of us are going? I really dont want to make a scene at funeral.

Rock (me) hardplace.

Please help!

I totally agree with you as well, U2. Great posts.

Obviously there's near unanimity on this thread that OP can't take her son under these circumstances, & she accepts that. But I do find it disturbing to see so many blanket statements about funerals not being suitable for children or that 7 is always too young; not to mention reading about families where there's a policy of no children under 14 attending.

I get that families are all different & have their own traditions. But children are all different too. I think it could be actively damaging, in particular, to ban older children - say those of 10+ - from the funeral of a relative they've been close to & who has played an important part in their lives; more so if the child expresses the desire to go. No, of course funerals aren't all about children: but they don't have to be for children to go to them!

I wouldn't feel the need to hide my grief from a child at a funeral and it is strange that anyone would.

^^ Yes to this, too! My sons saw me grieving for my sister, & would have done even if they hadn't attended the funeral. Grief is natural.

My niece also saw my DM, her GM, after she'd died in hospital. I was a bit aghast at my sister's decision to let her at the time - she was only 6 - but it was totally the right thing to do.

She's an adult now & has talked about how important it was for her in realizing that her GM - who had played a massive part in her life - had really died. Not every child would have wanted or needed that, certainly. But a general policy of excluding children from events connected with death & mourning seems incredibly unhealthy to me.

Also saddened to read the vitriol directed at a grieving woman on this thread, including the scorn about her not wanting to make her way to a 9am funeral 120 miles from home on public transport.

OP, if you're still around, I'm sure most people would feel exactly the same way. I certainly would. I hope the funeral's not too much of an ordeal, & that you & your family are able to support each other through it.

Whether or not the family are regular churchgoers, that's where the tradition comes from and for children to be there takes away from the formality of the occasion. It is a comfort for the mourners to know they are following the traditions of their forefathers and describing the view that children should not be present as old-fashioned or 'bonkers' is disrespectful.

Well said, Thyme. That's how it is in my (Welsh Presbyterian) family and has been for generations. I don't give a toss what other people think of our rituals, that's what we do. No children at funerals but there is a memorial service 2 months later where children are welcome.

GM is the one with the final say. What OP or any of us think is neither here nor there. Her wishes are paramount and anyone saying otherwise is showing staggering amount of disrespect.

With those who are saying children should never be at funerals even today (even when it isn't anything about the wishes of the chief mourner), does the child's grief not matter? Children feel loss; they are aware - and even if they aren't, when they get older and find out they aren't at the funeral, they could be hurt.

I'd be extremely hurt if I found out I hadn't been allowed at my brother's funeral, in case I inhibit the grief of some auntie or family friend, just because they're the adult and I'm the child.

It isn't about maturity to handle a funeral. You don’t need to be emotionally mature to become bereaved unfortunately. Seeing and feeling raw grief isn't something any of us find easy even as adults. A child who loved the person who died will feel grief too. Treating them like a childcare issue or an unwelcome distraction at an adult event is very unfair – they too have a right and often a need to be involved.

Well put, tiggytape.

Thyme, I understand what you're saying about the ritual aspect of a funeral, & the concept of the congregation as participants. But in many traditions where this is the case - eg. in the Catholic Church, where there may be a requiem mass - there's nothing to stop children being among those participants. Nearly all practising Catholics will have taken their first communion by the age of 10 & most at a few years younger than that. Children often play a part in death & mourning rituals in other traditions & religions, too.

when they get older and find out they aren't at the funeral, they could be hurt.

That rather depends on the actions of the adults. Should my children ask if they were at their great grandmothers funeral I will tell them that we went to remember her elsewhere and in our own way because all that was her was no longer contained within her physical remains. I can't see them feeling hurt about that. My niece was doing a hike in the Peak District and took herself off to sit alone for a while to remember her great grandmother.

A funeral is not the only way to say goodbye.

I didn't attend a funeral until I was 15. I did attend memorial services for lost relatives from around the age of 7 or 8.

I'm not hurt that I didn't attend funerals before then. There are other ways to say goodbye.

In OPs case she must respect her Grandmother's wishes but it doesn't mean her Grandmother isn't wrong to force them to do so.

No she isn't wrong. It's what her family does and it's right for her. Very rude to say otherwise. None of your business, frankly.

Thanks for the explanations :)

I can understand not taking a very young child (age 4 and under) to a funeral. A crying, fretful baby or toddler would take away from the dignity of the event, but I don't understand why an older child can't be allowed to attend and pay his/her respects and say goodbye properly to his/her relative.
I don't think we give children enough credit when it comes to how to behave at solemn occasions..
Most children, age 4 and up are quite capable of attending assemblies at school- where they very often have to sit quietly and calmly and pay attention for sometimes up to an hour, so I think 'most' would be able to handle a funeral, with the right support.

I also don't understand the posters that say that they wouldn't even take their children (7 years and up) to lay flowers on a grave because it would 'upset' them.
Maybe being upset now and again is good for a child -you can't shield them from everything.
Experiencing different emotions, whether it be happiness, sadness, anger (and even grief) is what turns us into well-rounded adults.

Why should death be treated as a dirty little secret to be hidden away.
Death is part of life.

I have a friend, who, for a whole week, took a completely different route to school, which took her about a mile out of the way! all because there was a dead badger on the road and she thought the sight of it would 'upset and traumatize' her children, who, by the way, are 9 years and older!

We live in a strange world.

Other societies don't treat funerals (or weddings) in this way.
The whole family attends.

Having said all that - unfortunately a lot of people ARE a bit uptight and anxious about death and the ceremonies surrounding it and we have to respect that.
And you have to respect your Grandmother's wishes unfortunately.

Losing I'd be surprised if, when you were older, you weren't a bit 'anxious and uptight' about death, too.

Had the same situation, but with my Father (my sons grandad).

What we did was encouraged my Mum to have a separate "ceremony" where we buried his ashes in a special place. That way only the grandchildren were there so they could say goodbye.
My 7yo understood, the 4yo was confused as to why people were crying and just wanted cuddles. The 2yo just ran around :)

Yes

Rock, you, hard place.

YANBU to feel how you do.

Rhian

Sorry for your loss. I think you have recognised that you have no option but to accept your GM wishes. I do think that some older people have more traditional views about who should attend. I know some people who think women shouldn't go to the graveside etc.

We did have children at my parent's funerals because they would have wanted them there. I don't subscribe to the no children at funerals school of thought but accept that others do.

My mother who is 83 attended her mothers funeral aged 10.

She would have been very upset if all their grandchildren, down to my then toddler DD, had not attended my fathers funeral.

She is Irish and catholic as are most of my family and children always attend family funerals.

I'm just saying that describing this as to do with age/old fashioned or anything else is not necessarily accurate.

Agree that the norms seem to be within individual families rather than specific to a certain religion/ generation. I don't think there are any rights or wrongs about it but the norms do seem to be very ingrained one way or the other and I think the next of kin gets to decide. Certainly if one of my parents died the other one would be horrified if I suggested bringing my DC to the funeral. Just how they are.

Yes I am still here, and overwhelmed by the response. Childcare is not the issue and not my main concern. My concerns lie with my sons grief and my frustration at not being able to handle this as I had wished. We have not been badgering an old lady. It was bought up in a conversation about funeral arrangements, mainly number of people for family funeral cars at the procession. It then came up in conversation with my grandmother who, pretty much just yelled at me and told me that it was her decision and we were not welcome.

I am going alone now, to which I am dreading tonight alone (please don't tell me again how selfish I am) in a hotel.
We will be doing something special on the weekend such as one of the ideas suggested by the helpful people on this thread.

Rhian I'm so sorry that your grandmother was so cavalier. I hope that the rest of your family are supportive and appreciative of the effort you will be making to attend, that the funeral is a positive experience for you and that you are able to do something special as a family at the weekend.

My mother tried to have my niece not attend my father's funeral (she has downs syndrome and can be noisy in church) but my siblings are I were all very clear that that wasn't an option. Funerals are for families to come together, say goodbye and mourn their loved one and I think it's very sad when anyone is excluded, especially when the rationale is prejudiced. Sadly this will affect how you feel about the death of your grandfather for a while, so I hope your family event helps you to let that hurt go.

Glad you are still here OP and good luck with the funeral. Ignore some of the spite on this thread; just frustrated harpies taking their misery out on others. Anyone with half a brain could understand why you were upset by this

My family is Welsh and until relatively recently only the men went. I would fight anyone who told me the ritual needed to be preserved and that I, as a woman, couldn't go.

But then, even as an atheist, I am a body in the room, everyone say goodbye type. And I'm certainly not a hippie, just someone who believes in saying goodbye.

Sorry to hear your Nan yelled at you, that must have been awful. Please make allowances for her at this horrendous time, she's very likely to be in shock. I hope you'll be able to give her a big healing hug when you see her at the funeral, and that all this upset can be put behind you both. Hope it all goes as well as can be expected.

Between the ages of 4 and 7, my DD had to deal with me dealing with the loss of my final 3 grandparents. 1 of whom died while DH was overseas (expected but sudden ending). We ended up bringing her to the Church for the removal for all 3, as she knew them all well. I had talked to her about it beforehand (had looked at MN and Winston's Wish for advice) and what to expect, including how adults may behave. No real options for childcare in any case. But we did make arrangements for her in all 3 cases for the day of the funeral.

At the first, I went to the house alone in the afternoon (all family there for open coffin) and DH collected DD from crèche and met me in church. We all 3 went back to the house for the meal and family gathering afterwards, where DD was welcomed and behaved well (and DH was looking out for her so I didn't have to).

At the 2nd, DH was stuck workwise, so I had to collect DD and bring her to the house and DH just made it there when the final prayers were happening. We told DD beforehand about the open coffin and let her decide about seeing that or not (she chose not), but she was there in the hall outside the sitting room with me. Again, church and meal afterwards. And again, although she wasn't booked into crèche that week (summer hols from school) - they took her that day and brought her on the planned trip to a sports stadium so she was quite happy.

For the DGran, DH was away overseas the following month for the "month's mind" which was also the scattering of ashes event 4 hours away (where DGran used to go on holidays). So I had to do that weekend trip alone with DD - it was awkward but she would have been coming even if DH was at home, just more stressful for me as he wasn't.

The last one, last year, DH was overseas again. So DD had to come to the house with me again for the open coffin. The difference this time (it was the house of the 1st funeral again) was that her cousins were also there (they'd been "too young" to be involved 3 years before - at age 4 and 8; but had also had to deal with an aunt on their other side dieing the previous year from cancer so it had become brutally real to them both by age 7 and 11, but their 3 year old DBro did not attend). Again, DD had the option about the open coffin - I had to be in the room this time for the final prayers and she was like glue at my side, but rather than pick her up like I usually do, I bent down and she was fine (just too short to see in unless she went up close). She did go in a few times during the afternoon earlier, but into the room, not up to the coffin. And as school was on, I sent her in the day of the funeral. Although her 2 cousins were there at the funeral as well.

Rhian, I didn't see your last post, sorry.

FWIW, in terms of doing it alone. Yes, it's bloody hard. You want your DH and DS there to give you a hug when you need one, or have a spare tissue, or whatever. Or just make you smile for a moment. And to be a complete family unit.

But that's not happening.

OK, fine. You now have a new plan. The public transport nightmare, hotel, family events, hotel (?) and home again. It really is do-able: Hard yes, but doable.

Be kind to yourself about it.

Do you get to see the family tonight when you get there? If it's an option, do try to meet them so you are not sitting alone in hotel all night. And as a family gathering (try honestly to forget about other worries and the disagreement until afterwards).

Also, have something nice with you to eat (a favourite pack of biscuits, bar of nice chocolate, some favourite fruit...) to snack on in the hotel. And make sure you get a proper meal somewhere.

I would also bring some relaxing shower gel or a bath bomb/bubbles, and some lavender mist to spray on your pillow. So that when all the travel, and any family/formal things are done and you are back there to sleep, you can relax and unwind. Don't be afraid to get a glass of wine in hotel bar (if there is one) and bring it upstairs. Have a favourite book or today's paper with the Sudoku/crossword to do, to help distract you and get sleepy.

And ask your DH to have something very easy but either your or a family favourite dinner arranged for when you get back. (Or to take you out to local pub for a pub grub meal). That you shouldn't have to think at that stage, just get back home on autopilot and stop when you get there.

I hope it all goes as well as possible for you, and my condolences on your loss also (I should have said that in first post sorry).