7 year old not allowed to attend a funeral.

[Rhian1]

Hi Mumsnet, long time lerker - 1st time posting.

My granddad passed away last week. We have talked about this very openly with our seven year old son, who is quite (i think) emotionally mature for his age.

We discussed the funeral, talked about what to expect and what will happen on the day, I believe he should attend.

However, after speaking to my grandmother (deceased spouse), she is amendment that he will not be allowed to go under any circumstances and if we do take him he will be asked to leave, even if that means me leaving as well.

I have tried talking to her, I believe this isn't her decision to make.

The funeral is some 120 miles away from our home, we have no options of childcare and I wish my husband to attend (for his own personal respects, and selfish reasons that I would like his support).

What do I do now?! I have prepared my son for this, how can I possibly tell him he cant go? Or that none of us are going? I really dont want to make a scene at funeral.

Rock (me) hardplace.

Please help!

I am deeply confused by this whole thread. The OP grandfather has died. Grandmother has specifically said she does not want OPs 7yr old at the funeral and if he turned up, would be asked to leave. This last sentence suggests that there has been some 'heated discussion' of the subject for grandmother to say this. IME grandmothers don't normally come out with promises to 'bounce ' family members from a funeral in response to a general enquiry as to wether children are welcome ! this is the response of someone completely fed up with having a family member not listen to her wishes and try to push her own adgenda and when not successful exerting pressure via other family members.
There is no dilemma, GM has said NO ! OP has agreed not to make a scene, therefore MN opinions on rights or wrongs are irrelevant. Funerals are open to all, but again this is irrelevant as turning up with son would cause a scene which OP has vowed not to do. HOWEVER the main question was actually about how to explain change of plan to son. This is the bit that is easy. Simply tell him ggm does not want children at the funeral, and its her wishes that come first in this case. I think OP is projecting her disappointment at 'losing' the fight onto her son. He is 7 fgs and no matter how mature he is, is still not an adult or even a teenager and I doubt he will be affected for life by being denied this life experience unless OP continues to make a big deal out of it. Best suggestion, go to the funeral in your own. Your parents and wider family will be there where you can support your gm and each other. Send dh and ds to local attraction for day if you really can't get by public transport, otherwise surely one of your extended family could pick you up and return you to nearest station ?. All in all, there are plenty of opportunities for you to teach DS life (and death) lessons...this is not one of them because your grandmother says so. end of !

Absolutely appalled at how some people are addressing OP and projecting their own feelings, and greatly exaggerating her stance, her comments and her actions.
She has lost her grandfather! She's grieving - have some compassion, some of you are monstrous! Not once has she said she'll go against her grandmothers wishes nor has she been badgering her. It's hugely difficult when you try to parent in your own way, and circumstances prohibit your ability to do that.
OP, I'm really sorry for your loss, and hope you find a aoluti

Solution which works for you all. Sigh

My children went to their first funeral at about 4/5 and there was both lots of celebration and a lot of very open grief (my relative who died was in her early twenties, and her family are Ghanian and much more open in expressing their feelings). My children registered that people were very sad and upset but were not traumatised and did not seem too worried that we were about to die.

At my father's funeral last year dd read one of the prayers and helped carry the coffin (as did I) she was 12 at the time. We were all pretty upset. There weren't very many younger children but there was one baby and having him there was actually quite cathartic, to know that there was new life in the middle of such sadness.

OP I hope that you manage to find a way to be OK with the funeral without your family by your side (I know it was hugely important for me to have my children with me to say goodbye to my dad) and that your son finds his own way to say goodbye too.

Oh and if it was anything like my father's funeral planning then most likely the vicar came to visit the grandmother to talk about how the arrangements would go, and he talked about what is allowed from his point of view and ask what she would like. It sounds as if the OP's mother was there too. The subject of children attending probably came up quite naturally, the mother probably said that the OP would like to bring her son (possibly mentioning other younger family members too) the vicar said yes that was quite all right and the grandmother expressed her strong no children at funerals viewpoint. There may have been more discussion, but that might well have been it.

The grandmother then rang up the OP to tell her 'no children', the OP expressed her wish to bring her ds and the grandmother told her she'd be barred if she did so.

How heated any of that got is conjecture, but (with the exception of the vicar) are all grieving and emotional. My sympathy is with all of the relatives, OP included. Coping with someone you love dying is very hard.

Sorry for your loss, OP

When my maternal grandmother died, I did not attend the funeral with my three children - the youngest was only 18 months old and I thought it would be unfair on her and the other people attending. Instead, we all went to the beach to thrown pebbles into the sea and remember her in our own way. The children were happy that this was how they were saying goodbye, I didn't feel they needed the formality of a funeral. We did attend the wake though, which was a celebration of my grandmothers life and a chance for distant family to meet up.

At the end of the day though, it is your grandmother's wishes that coumt and they should be respected.

Your DS will be fine with not going - find a way for him to say goodbye in his own way. His great grandfather isn't confined to a casket at a crematorium, he is all around.

'Not once has she said she'll go against her grandmothers wishes nor has she been badgering her.'

Really? this sounds like it to me
'However, after speaking to my grandmother (deceased spouse), she is amendment that he will not be allowed to go under any circumstances and if we do take him he will be asked to leave, even if that means me leaving as well.

I have tried talking to her, I believe this isn't her decision to make. '

OP are you paying for and organising the funeral?

This could have been one conversation:
OP: we'll all see you on xxx
GM: we don't want your son coming
OP: but he wants to say goodbye to his great grandfather
GM: no, I don't want him there, if he turns up we'll ask you to leave
OP: but
GM: end of discussion

This could all be bollocks but my point is we don't know. We don't know if it was one conversation or several

Personally I don't get my jollies from bullying someone online who's just lost her grandfather, calling her selfish and all sorts. Upsetting behaviour and nothing you'd do offline.

compos you make an interesting point talking about cultural norms. In my experience, children are in no way traumatised by attending funerals, it's accepted as part of life. I've seen many a seven year old boy stand in line for an hour, wearing a suit, shaking hands with all the mourners and accepting their hugs and condolences. It has been a very dignified, solemn occasion, and they certainly haven't been distracting to other mourners, or misbehaved because they were bored.

What is it about cultural norms that makes it an important part of saying goodbye to some groups of people, and others view it as a trauma that children will never recover from? If the basic emotions of grief are the same, why do the feelings of trauma only apply to some cultural groups?

That's not an attack on anyone's culture, and not really anything to do with the OP'S question either, just something that reading this thread has made me wonder about.

treacle I have never thought about the funeral as an act of saying goodbye, but marking the end of a life in a relatively formal way.

To me, saying goodbye is a personal thing, entirely separate from the ritual. In my mind a funeral should be about showing that the person's life mattered and showing them dignity and respect in death, not a group therapy session for the mourners or a life learning opportunity for a child (I don't mean that as flippantly as it sounds) The mental process of saying goodbye happens in private.

Personally I don't get my jollies from bullying someone online who's just lost her grandfather, calling her selfish and all sorts. Upsetting behaviour and nothing you'd do offline.

I know, it is disgusting.

OP has only posted a few times. For all we know it could have been one conversation with her gm. But she is now being accused of being selfish, going against her gm's wishes and brow beating. All from a few posts!

OP is grieving but some can't extend compassion to her.

But it is always fun to think the worst of the OP and make her feel worse than she already does.

Why don't you suggest to him that they visit the grave, and put some flowers and a little note on it?

This could have been one conversation:
OP: we'll all see you on xxx
GM: we don't want your son coming
OP: but he wants to say goodbye to his great grandfather
GM: no, I don't want him there, if he turns up we'll ask you to leave
OP: but
GM: end of discussion

... and that would be badgering!

Yabu. How would you feel in 60 years time if when you are burying your husband, people are trying to persuade you to do something you don't want to do, whether its because you feel it's inappropriate or whatever. So on top of your own grief, you're having to say no to people, who should be supporting you at that time.

When my grandfather died my children didn't go to the funeral. I also had no childcare for them and could have done with dh's support as I was very upset. Which is precisely why they shouldn't have gone. If they had come, who would have cared for them whilst dh was looking after me?

You can always take your son to the grave or a special place to lay some flowers at any other time. Sorry, ithink her wishes override those of you and your son on this occasion and you're being selfish though I can understand why. Put aside your feelings and go say your goodbyes and support your gm. Do not allow this to cause problems in what is already a difficult time.

I hope all goes well

Hi op, so very sorry for your loss and the situation.

You of course know that you have to go with your DGM wishes on this and I agree with her.

Funerals are not the places for young children and at 7 he is a young child mainly because they inhibit adults grieving.

People may need/do need to let go of grief at funerals and not be afraid to have to hold it together so as not to upset a child who happens to be there.

This isn't about educating or accommodating your ds this is about your grandparents and their love/loss.

Fwiw my fil had the same blanket ban when my mil died as all the gc were around your sons age.

10 years later he died and all the teenage grandchildren were there and my sons helped carry the coffin. Heartbreaking but appropriate.

7 at a funeral is too young. I agree with your DGM.

I am firmly of the view that children should be allowed to go to funerals, but I also think you can't really go against the grandmother's wishes. I'm sure she has her reasons. If there is no childcare available, then I suppose the OP will have to go on her own, hard though that is for her.

As a slightly irrelevant side, I come from South Wales and I remember when I was a teenager my uncle died, and the women weren't allowed to go to the funeral. That was still the tradition in those days: everyone attended a brief service in the house, then the women stayed behind and prepared the food, while the men went to the graveside for the funeral itself. This was in the 1970s.

I too am sorry for your loss.

I just wonder if your Grandmother had a bad experience as a child at a funeral, and this is the reason she doesn't want children there.
I know that my Father had to be present when his own Grandad was laid out in the front parlour, when he was 8, because that is what was some in those days. He found it very difficult to deal with.

Obviously, funerals and the whole process is dealt with very differently these days, but memories of the past may be affecting your Grandmother's reasoning.

I have never felt I had to hold my grief together around children.

I assumed that if their parents allowed them to the funeral then they were at least a bit prepared to witness grief.

I wouldn't feel the need to hide my grief from a child at a funeral and it is strange that anyone would.

And 7 might be too young for some children but it isn't for all of them.

I found this a good read and it pinpoints why children should be allowed to go to funerals.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jul/12/should-young-children-go-to-funerals

This part:

*What we do hear time and time again is those who wish they had gone – in many of those cases, it has prevented them from starting their grieving journey and they still feel angry or rejected.

"It's on this basis that you'll be hard pushed to find any child bereavement expert who doesn't think that, with adequate preparation, it's OK for a child of any age to go to a funeral, if they want to."*

That was my experience. I talked to many, every one of them said a child should be able to attend a funeral and it is healthy for them and very unhealthy to shield children from death and grief. So if the experts think it's ok then who are we to say that a 7 year old is too young?

I remember some people disagreeing with my decision to allow two of my children to view their father's body. Yes, it was harrowing and I got advice and prepared them as much as I could, but it was important to allow them to go if they wanted to. I got many negative comments. I still get flashbacks of that day although my children have never regretted it. I think the way we want to protect children from death in this culture is strange and unhealthy.

now weirdly, whilst I have been to funerals galore from an early age, I've never been to my grandparents graveside and I would never take a child to a grave because I think it would be upsetting, far far more so than a funeral. I only found out where my gps were buried when I was in my mid thirties, I had never visited the grave, none of my family visit graves after the original burial.

crap. The quote with the stars around them didn't bold!

I'm sorry for your loss, OP, if you're still reading. I wasn't allowed to go to my beloved Grandmama's funeral at 7, and I remember the feeling of being left out. It was horrible. I feel for your son and for you and your husband.

That said, your Grandmother is also grieving her husband, and when people are grieving they do, say and decide things that are hard to understand. Your son will get over it (I have, and quickly did) but your Grandmother may not get over having you go against her wishes at this very difficult time for all of you. I think it is best to go with her wishes, but perhaps you could hold a small remembrance session with your son at home, just looking at pictures and talking. That might help you feel that your son also had the chance to get closure/say goodbye.

It isn't just about whether children would be upset or not.

Some people still believe that the funeral service is a solemn ritual and the congregation aren't there as spectators but to play an active part in the service. As such, they should be adults with the capacity to understand what they are doing. Children are out of place on such an occasion.

Whether or not the family are regular churchgoers, that's where the tradition comes from and for children to be there takes away from the formality of the occasion. It is a comfort for the mourners to know they are following the traditions of their forefathers and describing the view that children should not be present as old-fashioned or 'bonkers' is disrespectful.