7 year old not allowed to attend a funeral.

[Rhian1]

Hi Mumsnet, long time lerker - 1st time posting.

My granddad passed away last week. We have talked about this very openly with our seven year old son, who is quite (i think) emotionally mature for his age.

We discussed the funeral, talked about what to expect and what will happen on the day, I believe he should attend.

However, after speaking to my grandmother (deceased spouse), she is amendment that he will not be allowed to go under any circumstances and if we do take him he will be asked to leave, even if that means me leaving as well.

I have tried talking to her, I believe this isn't her decision to make.

The funeral is some 120 miles away from our home, we have no options of childcare and I wish my husband to attend (for his own personal respects, and selfish reasons that I would like his support).

What do I do now?! I have prepared my son for this, how can I possibly tell him he cant go? Or that none of us are going? I really dont want to make a scene at funeral.

Rock (me) hardplace.

Please help!

"I'm another who thinks it is a good thing for children to witness grief, to see that its natural. I don't quite understand what the posters mean who are saying they would have to modify their behaviour if children were present, because I don't understand what you wouldn't want them to see."

A grieving adult, one who is overcome with grief, is a very daunting sight for children to behold. They almost can't bare to see their parent that upset. It upsets them more than any grief of their own.

I lost 2 grandparents in short succession at the age of 18. Even at a relatively young age, and despite my own grief, I was able to understand that my main role was to support my parent whose grief was significantly more than mine. I understand you are grieving and I am sorry for your loss but surely your main concern should be to support your Grandmother and Mother who have lost a husband/parent

Your motivation for wanting your son wanting to be there doesn't appear to be about him wanting to say goodbye, more about the inconvenience of arranging childcare. I am not opposed to children at funerals as a rule, in some circumstances it may be appropriate (when there was a particularly close relationship) but a great grandson who lived 120 miles away shouldn't be put before the wife of the deceased. It will be her life that's left torn apart, unrecognizable, long after most of the mourners have begun to move on.
This is a life altering loss for your Grandmother, her life will never be the same again, I doubt many of us who have lost grandparents (and I can include myself in that) can say that our losses had such a life changing impact.

This may seem harsh, and I probably am overreacting but I am grieving a loss of my own at the moment and am probably what some posters consider when they refer to 'chief mourners' as my Mother died last month. This was a life altering loss as I am in my late 20s with no family of my own therefore her, my dad & my brother are my immediate family, and she was only in her 50s so this was unexpected.

I am absolutely bereft as it is, if a member of the non-immediate family had thought their grief was more important than anyone in the immediate families, this would have added to my pain. You have no idea how your Grandma is coping behind closed doors, you will move on with your lives, she will be left with the biggest hole forever. Do not make this harder for her. Even amidst my own pain, I have realised that my Dad's wishes come first and that I need to support him than think about myself. I have a partner who can support me, he is the one going to bed every night on his own.

Those that say they can't rank grief - I have never lost a husband, but I know I could bear the pain of losing 2 grandparents in 8 weeks much better than I can losing my mum in her 50s. Please don't tell your Grandmother that this isn't just about her, I can't imagine how awful it would be to hear having lost my husband of decades that my great grandson's wishes should be put in front of mine. Of course he has a right to say good bye - but as others have suggested, there are other ways to do this - I am not saying it's wrong of you to want to take your son to the funeral in principle, but you must understand, that your wishes are insignificant compared to your Grandma's..

My children have coped extremely well with the funerals of relatives they were not extremely attached to, but they were willingly invited.

I offered up the 2 most extreme examples in recent years...at both the grief of the bereaved spouse and children was overwhelming and to see at a huge (100's) funeral as only gc all the adults in their immediate lives from that side of family broken in grief was not very helpful in my children's grieving process, it was for my youngest frankly scary. Then to be passed around as the living successor...

In my family, women and children do not attend funerals. And there is no wake (there might be tea and cake afterwards, served by the women who didn't attend the funeral).

I have only once been to a family funeral - my grandfather's - and only because my mother, as the only daughter of the deceased, went as is customary, and she felt that i, as the only other female member of the family, should not be excluded in this instance.

There were, as far as I recall, 7 people present, including the vicar. My DGM's funeral had 6 (I was abroad). It is how we do things. It isn't better, or worse, I don't mourn any less, I don't feel excluded from the grief, it is just what we do. Had someone brought a child to one of the funerals - or on normal occasions, should any woman attend unless there is a very specific reason e.g. they represernt a branch of the family with no men, or thed man cannot attend - it would be disrespectful, distracting, deliberately setting out to shock.

Each of thoser was followed by a quiet family tea. Again, bringing another person along - though women relatives are normally incuded - would be deeply upsetting.

Wow, some people are reacting pretty strongly. For sure, the grandmother is, if you like, chief mourner, but that doesn't mean others lose their right to grieve.
My son went to my mother's funeral in May. He is 8. Behaved impeccably. There was absolutely no question of him not going - it was never brought up. We had flown halfway around the world one week before the funeral.
Hiding death and grieving does no-one any favours.
I guess you have to do as she asks, but I really, really don't agree with it either.

This whole thread is 'I I I'. How dare you speak about your grandmother in the way you have! She has lost her husband and she gets to pick. You are not superior to her just because you have read hundreds of articles. Your son is 7, he is a child and he will not be invited to some things. That's life.

And this is just nonsense.

Elephant,

If I were to insist on gong to a family funeral, or worse take DD (11), it would be a deliberate insult to the older generation of my family.

That is not 'nonsense', it is simply a reflection of a set of values and beliefs and traditions very strongly held. And a funeral is no place to start challenging those.

Elephant - Slightly different, as this was your Mother's funeral. At my Mother's funeral, no one would have told me what to or what not to do (although I wouldn't have done anything to upset my Dad) but at my grandparents funeral, I knew my place was to support those closer to the deceased not to cause them further distress.

I understand that some children grow up to resent not being allowed to go to funerals of relatives, I wasn't allowed to go to my Uncle's at the age of 9 which I didn't really understand at the time but now I understand that my grandparents had lost their son and their wishes came first - but this is a great grandparents funeral, not a grandparent, not a parent, a great grandparent. A great grandparent who (and I apologise if I am mistaken) that the OP hasn't described a close relationship with between him and her son, the main problem seems to be the childcare issue. So basically the Grandmother's wishes should be ignored because the Op can't arrange childcare. It's ridiculously selfish.

I'm sorry for your loss but I think you need to accept that your GM is allowed to say she doesn't want children at the funeral. It isn't an unusual point of view.

As it's a school day it would probably be best if he went to school. I can't believe you can't ask one of friends' mums, or a neighbour to take him to school, especially under the circumstances. Even with 120 mile journey you should be back by pick up time

Alternatively can't you stay with/travel with your mum and your DH stay home.

And for those of you saying just take him anyway (not you OP) I hope you have more empathy for those who are grieving and better manners in real life.

I am sorry for the loss of your grandad; it is hard for everyone and especially so for your grandmother.

Obviously, you can't take your son, despite doing all the right things to prepare him for the funeral. Completely agree with you that children should be present at funerals - dd has attended more funerals than weddings, poor thing, and she is only 14. Luckily we've had no significant deaths for a few years now and we are all recovering.

I think the only thing you can do is be as open and truthful with your son as you can. Some people simply think that children should be protected from death - I disagree, and clearly you do too.

There are other ways of getting closure. The idea of planting a tree is a lovely one; you can make a special goodbye ceremony of it which includes your son, and invite other family members, and make it as good a substitute for the funeral with as much of the formality and ritual as you like.

In your place, I would go with dh and ds, but you will have to attend the actual funeral etc without them, and dh can look after ds while you do that. You could take ds, with dh, to visit the grave after your gm has gone, and then you all 3 do things together, perhaps things your grandad liked, or visit a favourite spot of his. Maybe a few others would like to join you later on?

The reason that I don't agree with small children (under the age of 10 ) at funerals is because, in my view, for once, it isn't all about them.

I don't want a solemn, (in most cases), emotional service distracted by children who cry(not because they're sad, because they're bored or hungry or cranky), or talk, or shout or need books reading to them.

There are exceptions. For those who want celebrations rather than mourning. For children's funerals where they were friends.

I don't see that funerals have to be 'learning experiences', they can learn when they're a bit older. No-one enjoys funerals. Why subject a child to one before it's necessary.

ElephantgoesToot, I am sorry for your loss and I am sure that was the right decision for your son, hiding death and grieving from a child when you have a lost a parent will be well nigh impossible. It can be handled well or poorly and that will be also impacted by the choices of close and extended family in their own grief.

I am querying the tone of the whole thread... very close family that has broken my heart...not a lot of rational thought let alone funeral rehearsal conversation.

So to me is sounding more like the funeral of a not extremely close relative..which would explain the multitude of posters who are trying to validate the feelings of the widow.

Condolences, OP. Obviously, you will be respecting your grandmother's wishes, but I find the majority Mn attitude towards children at funerals really, really strange. I'm Irish, and have been attending funerals and wakes with open coffins since I was four or five - including those of two of my grandparents and great uncle (who all died before I turned ten, and who lived with us, and to whom I was close as a child).

I only realise how that, according to Mn wisdom, I should have been traumatised from the sight of dead people and adults grieving, when in fact, I think it's a thoroughly good thing that children grow up seeing death as a normal part of life, and experiencing the rituals that bring people together to grieve. Children, in my experience, are afraid when they think adults are covering up something or lying or being evasive, not when they see grief.

And the idea of being 'invited' or debarred from a funeral is weird to me - my experience of them is that they are public events attended by anyone with a connection to the dead person or their family - when my grandfather died, people who had met him only once at my parents' wedding years before travelled forty miles to his funeral. In Ireland, the death notice is immediately put in the local paper, and in rural areas often read out on local radio - in both cases with full funeral details.

I'm sorry for your loss OP. I think this is a cultural/generational thing rather than anyone being selfish. No-one's at fault here.

In one part of my family children at funerals would be a big no (across all generations - I was considered a bit young to go to my uncle's funeral and I was 22!) On another part it is all ages and yes, open casket if possible - the only funeral I've been to on that side, the dead person's mum was adamant to have an open casket, which was part of her grief, but she took a lot of dissuading as circumstances of the death would have unfortunately made it impossible. It was a case of wanting to say a last goodbye.

So I can see both sides of the argument, you're going to do the right thing and let her choose, but please don't hold a grudge about it. It won't be worth thinking about after the grief is less strong, and I'm sure she doesn't mean an insult to your dc by it, which I wondered if you were thinking.

Mm. Your grandmother is right. And so are the posters who would take children.

It all depends on the circumstances. DD saw off her beloved DGFs with becoming solemnity at 4 and 8, and she wept far more for my DM than I did. She was 12 by then, and visited her in her final illness. That took courage.

However, like a pp's DD, she's done more funerals than weddings since DW works in geriatric care and she was permitted to see off her friends among the residents. IIRC she her saw first (decently covered) deceased at 2. "Poorly, Daddy?". "No darling, dead.". "Ooh. Proper poorly".

Don't upset your gran even further.

Shut up and put up

notgoing I agree whole heatedly, beautifully put.

Burren no one is suggested you are traumatised by attending open casket funerals as that is a cultural norm in Ireland. It isn't in England and for many in the older generation there are powerful taboos about children at funerals. Surely that cultural difference should be respected as well, rather than be considered odd?

This is a genuine question but would a 7 year old who probably isn't that close to a great-grandparent (given the 60 mile distance) really be that upset?

Aren't small children often surprisingly pragmatic about deaths which don't directly impact on them?

I'm a bit by all the talk of closure/rembrance/releasing balloons/planting trees/planting rosemary in the context of a 7 year old and an elderly relative.

notgoingout I hadn't seen your post before I posted mine. I agree with you.

And by not being upset I meant be upset at not going to the funeral.

I'm astonished at how many people say a funeral is not a place for a child. No wonder people handle bereavement so badly.

My DM died and I took my 5 year old - much to the horror of her aunts and uncles. I explained I would be sad and cry a lot and it was all part of saying goodbye.
She accepted it and was very mature about the whole thing, and understands death is a part of life events.

I think it is really sad you cannot take your child- when you think he will cope OK.

I don't understand why you'd take yiur ds out of school and get him to wait around all day with yiur dp just so you don't need to travel alone.

My dear grandpa died last year, he was like a father to me. Dp couldn't get the time off work so I got an international flight, 8 hour coach journey alone ( well I had my baby with me but that just made the journey more difficult. It was hard but I'm an adult and sometimes you have to do hard things by yourself when your an adult.

I think yiur ds would be more confused being taken to the area his great grandfather lived, taken out of school and having to hang around waiting for you. If he stays at home with yiur dp it won't seem like such a big deal.

Will the school even give him time off for a day trip as he's not officially going to the funeral?

Seriously.

You just need to explain the situation to your son.

I can't believe you are putting his feelings (which are unknown at present) over those of an old lady who has just lost her husband.

I had absolutely no idea you could control who attends a funeral. I thought the notice went in the paper and anyone could come and pay their respects.

Does your DS want to attend?

When DH's uncle died two if his DGCs aged 8 and almost 7 attended (their choice). Another 8yo DGS didn't.

AFAIK funerals are not invite only.

You are missing the point! Of course you can't control who goes to the funeral, but if you are a close relative you do not go against the wishes of your much loved next of kin of the deceased!
I can't imagine that you would say to your grandmother- ' we want him to come and you can't stop him'!
It is disappointing, I agree, but easily explained- that is what parents do. Find a lovely alternative to remember him.