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Grooming gangs - please check on your teens

229 replies

lemmein · 17/06/2014 09:42

I am unsure whether to put this on here, I might get ripped apart for what some might consider 'stating the bleedin' obvious' but I'm going to anyway.

This year my 15 year old daughter came home late (due in at 10 - arrived home at 11:30). She'd told me that she was going to the cinema with her friend. When she didn't arrive home I called her friends parents, her friend had been home all evening. Obviously I panicked. When she eventually arrived home we had a huge row and she admitted she had been out with '2 lads'. I grounded her for being late and lying. The next day she ran away.

I contacted the police who informed me that another girl in her school had been involved with an asian grooming gang; the police found my daughter the same night but referred her to social services because they believed she may have been exploited.

Since that day our lives blew up. That night when she supposedly went to the cinema 2 men had picked her up from my doorstep and took her away for sex. I discovered that she had a private number for a taxi driver who she would call at the top of the road to take her to school (I thought she was getting the bus, as always!). She also admitted that on several occasions when she was supposed to be sleeping at her friends she was actually with these men. On one occasion she had been given drink and drugs, fell asleep, and woke up to a man in his late 20s having sex with her. Obviously we were devastated, and the guilt was overwhelming, I'd failed at protecting her by trusting her word.

The police told me to not ground/punish her because it would make these men more appealing to run to; it was an horrific time, I didn't want her to leave the house knowing she would go straight to them, so I put a 'spy' app on her phone. From this I found that she was still meeting these people, on one occasion I found 2 men sat in a car outside her school, the same 2 men who had taken her that night when she was supposed to be at the cinema. I videoed and confronted them; contacted the police, they said they weren't committing a crime!?! It was becoming difficult to protect her from this gang, and from herself really. She couldn't see what they were doing at all.

I don't want to go into every little detail because I don't want to lose the reason for my writing in such a lengthy post. My daughter doesn't fit the 'stereotype' for the victims of this sort of crime. Me and her dad have been together for 19 years and have a good relationship, she's never witnessed any sort of violence/bullying/intimidation. She's currently doing her GCSEs and is predicted As throughout, even when she ran away she took her school books! She's mostly a confident young girl and up until those months I had a good relationship with her, or so I thought. Obviously I'm not saying that those who DO fit the stereotype are fair game to these scum, I just want to make the point that actually, there is no stereotype.

I had become too relaxed, I had believed she was staying at her friends, I stupidly had stopped checking and just trusted her; something I will regret forever, by not checking I feel I had practically giftwrapped my daughter to these men. They could do what they wanted because they knew she had lied and would feel unable to confide in us.

Please, please, please check where your teens are. I know some might find this patronising and think I'm an idiot for not knowing what was going on under my nose (I still can't believe it, so I understand this) but I genuinely had no reason to suspect anything was wrong. Had she not arrived home late that evening I probably still wouldn't know. These people are clever! they worm there way into your teens lives, offer them free lifts, give them free takeaways, invite them to parties with drink/drugs - they are ruthless. They will even wait outside your home, outside schools! It has taken months of intense work with my daughter, from me and also from social services (who have been brilliant btw, if you suspect this is happening to your child please contact them) for her to understand what these men were doing. I'm probably guilty of painting a picture of paedophiles/rapists as being monsters, when actually, as she has found, they are often charming, good looking young men.

Also, check your teens FB friend list, for older males or ones that live outside the area - my daughter's was full of these people. Question if they turn up with new perfume, clothes, even cigarettes - this was one thing I noticed but suspected her and her friends had been shoplifting (now, I wish they had!!). I had lost contact with her friends parents, obviously at 15 year old I no longer stand at the school gates, since speaking to the parents its become apparent that this was happening to all of these girls, not just my daughter. Please, always check where they are. I have been told by the police and social services that these grooming gangs are a huge problem in my area (the north east) - it is unbelievable how they can infiltrate your family and steal your daughter from under your nose. I wish you could all meet my daughter, she's not stupid, yet she believed them?

Sorry for the ridiculously long post; I hope I don't sound patronising, probably most mums do what I stupidly didn't anyways, but if it helps one mum/dad question their teens activities its worth it. These people are scum, please check.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 10:40

there is evidence from the cloning of the phone. the mother called the police with evidence on the phone to tell them that these men were sat outside the school where they could have gone and collaborated that evidence quite easily and have gotten the number plate and run it through their system and maybe even, call me crazy, had a word with these guys.

i can't see why you're so determined to make this complicated.

if you take this kind of thing seriously you investigate. not conclude it's not worth investigating before even trying. for all we know if they had done the above they'd have found out all manner of criminal history and collaborating evidence about these men OR they may have had enough reason (loitering outside a school) to conduct a stop and search and have found drugs and/or collaborating information of their involvement in criminal gangs. we'll never know because it was just some 15yo girl and not worth the trouble.

do you see?

TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 10:41

they might have had no insurance - ANYTHING that allowed the police to scare them and cause trouble for them a bit and let them know they were being watched.

Suzannewithaplan · 20/06/2014 10:45

we're just going to need a point blank law such as that where a large age gap, alcohol /drugs or signs of organised behaviour involving more than one male are apparent prosecution is mandatory

I agree but find it hard to be optimistic, seems like an uphill struggle in a patriarchal culture where men routinely collude to promote their own interests at the expense of women.

The theme of women existing to serve the needs of men at the expense of their own wellbeing is entrenched in our society, in many ways the grooming of young girls is an extension of that theme.

unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 10:56

Of course I see, Honeybadger. I personally would have sent DP down there with a baseball bat but he would have been convicted of assault. Or worse.

Police would have had their reasons and as I said earlier to prove grooming there has to be online contact several times before a meet up. This has now changed to one contact because criminals would use different phones or aliases.

This is organised crime and it might not even be the local force that deals with it, without the facts we don't know.

I'm not making it complicated, it just is complicated. You can't randomly charge people of things. They would have just said they are waiting for xx girlfriend, brother etc which they are within their right to do. They are slippery and the police know this.

There was a report by the Children's Commissioner recently which looked at this issue, hopefully the wheels are beginning to turn.

CarpetBagger · 20/06/2014 11:00

they need massive training to be aware that this is not the same as a parent being upset that her 15yo has had sex with her slightly older boyfriend. if i wake up unconscious with a stranger raping me my age has bugger all to do with it - whether i'm a teenager or an old lady - rape is rape

You shouldn't have to even be explaining any of this, some assertions of people on this thread make me worry even more.

As for consent in these grooming gangs the only way you would get proper consent is for the gang to sit the girl down and say:

" we are all going to rape you, first we will pick you up in a flash car, you will think your going to have a nice rich BF to drive you around, we will also get you loads of alchol, and even buy you a phone...THEN we will gain your trust, make you think we love you, then we will work on you until we can pass you round to our friends, drug you, gang rape you....and by the way, we are doing this to other girls too, right now....there is a girl in our shagging room, a filthy room with a mattress who is in a drunken coma and has been raped....when you get upset we will threaten you, threaten to tell your school, your parents, and be violent to you...the police will never believe you....SO....its all a lie, all a lie so we can shag you,...do you CONSENT?????"

Even then, if the girl consented I wouldnt accept that!

How can anyone even begin to say any girl at 11, or 16 would consent to that?

How? How can you say they are consenting to sex when they do not understand what exactly is going on?

OddFodd · 20/06/2014 11:07

It's nonsense that the police said they couldn't do anything. Stop and search laws mean they can ask someone why they're parked there. I listened to an interview with a young woman in Oxford who'd been groomed and her mum. It was absolutely terrifying and very similar to your DD's experience lemmein. These men do this because the police perceive this to be a 'grey' area when it really isn't.

Has anyone reported this thread to MNHQ to ask about the campaign? They won't do anything if they haven't read the thread.

unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 11:09

Carpetbagger the problem is, in law, she has to tell the police that she didn't consent. Without that they have no case.

That's what I keep saying needs to change.

Suzannewithaplan · 20/06/2014 11:14

Carpetbagger, I agree but very sadly I think that in many people's minds the girls are just seen as 'easy' and because of that they deserve it.
The men are taking advantage of the sexual double standards and misogyny which still exist as powerful undercurrents in our culture.

unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 11:15

Someone reported it earlier I think.

It depends on the age of the girl. Over 13,there sadly is a grey area if there is no allegation from the victim. This might have changed now and it might now be possible for the police to prosecute without the victims consent but her case was a year ago.

I'm hoping someone with more legal knowledge steps in to this thread soon.

scortja · 20/06/2014 11:15

Who are these people, though?! I mean who ARE THEY?! There just seems to be so many men willing to rape drugged teenagers.. Surely most men know its wrong - don't they?!

unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 11:27

It's organised crime, same as drug dealing. Feeding off the young and inexperienced. Usually perpetrated by the young to gain trust and exert the fear required. There is probably a huge demand images for this kind of assault and there is probably big money to be made.

Behind every sale of crack on the street there is a huge network organised by power and violence. This is probably just another one of those but much harder to prosecute because what's being sold has no traceable evidence.

antimatter · 20/06/2014 11:40

OP - I am not sure if you have energy to complain about lack of Police involvement:
www.ipcc.gov.uk/complaints

TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 11:45

one more time: she doesn't need to say ANYTHING in order for the police to go tap on the window of the car saying, 'what are you doing here?' step outside please and do a search of the vehicle, write down the license plate number etc.

what's complex or grey about that?

it is a very clear example of having no will whatsoever to even try and discourage these guys by using existing powers police do have.

i agree with whoever said the views here were worrying.

TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 11:47

police don't prosecute - they investigate, collect evidence, go and talk to people and try to police and prevent things.

they shouldn't not bother to do those things if they decide ah well 50 steps down the road way above my paygrade there'll probably be a problem with prosecution. THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB. their job should be to protect, prevent and investigate. at the very least going and asking these weirdos why they are texting a child and what they are doing hanging around outside a school.

unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 12:10

OP is going to make a complaint to the police. Stated early on in thread.

Her DD is in court this week as a witness to another crime. I hope this gives her the courage to move forward with her own case.

The police said she was used by several gangs and this is why, early in her case, I suspect the police were being careful about going in all guns blazing. I may be wrong, looking forward to getting an update from OP to clarify.

It's all just horrific, but very real. Thanks

lemmein · 20/06/2014 13:11

Hi everyone, just a quick note to say I'm still reading, I didn't post and run. My other daughter is quite poorly at the moment so my time is taking up with her but I will definitely be back to the thread.

I am definitely making a formal complaint to the police once DD1 is well again. Just to clarify, DD2 is not in court - I rang the police because she recognised a photo of a man who she's previously been involved with who has committed a similar crime recently.

I'm really interested in all of your views, you've raised some points I hadn't considered - thank you, it'll help me prepare my complaint. Sorry for the quick post, hopefully I'll get time to post over the weekend.

OP posts:
unrealhousewife · 20/06/2014 13:42

Sorry my mistake
OP. Take care.

TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 13:49

glad it's helped lemmein - i would definitely include that they did not even go and have a word, check out the situation when given an exact location of where they were and what they were doing there.

also for sure the question about age in relation to rape.

CarpetBagger · 20/06/2014 14:14
  • TheHoneyBadger Fri 20-Jun-14 11:47:07

Agree.

Police need to be pro actively out there being nosey. Remember the criticism after Stuart Hazel, what happened to pushy nosey coppers, knocking on doors, asking questions.

CarpetBagger · 20/06/2014 14:18

Carpetbagger the problem is, in law, she has to tell the police that she didn't consent. Without that they have no case

consent to what though, in order to consent she would have to agree to what I laid out above, and then you would have to prove, even when told the actual gory details behind the initial smoke screen Beema and Vodka that she had a reasonable idea and expectation of everything else getting involved with these men meant.

Lets face it, even if she did, which is 99.9% unlikely you would have to say the child didnt have full mental capacity. Because who would consent to that.

There are lone wolves out there these are not, these are organised paedophiles preying on under age school girls.

TheHoneyBadger · 20/06/2014 14:22

aside from which none of that whatsoever prevents you from getting out there as police officers and having a presence, having a word, investigating these guys other activities etc to let them know they are seen and watched and taken seriously.

i wonder carpetbagger if it's also to do with the results culture shite that has fallen on police like everyone else whereby all that matters is how many convictions, how many fines etc rather than protecting and serving the community.

morethanpotatoprints · 20/06/2014 14:33

I wouldn't let my dd out of the house without dropping her off and picking up tbh.
She is only 10 atm but I was the same with her brothers when they were teenage.
With them it was the worry of being mugged, beaten up, or brought back by Police as after 9pm dc were escorted home if found on the streets.
I think that's the only way to keep them safe.

ppplease · 22/06/2014 15:02

Bumping this. Just because.

ItHasANiceRingWhenYouLaugh · 24/06/2014 11:34

Bump again.

lowcarbforthewin · 30/06/2014 19:04

this is in the news today. The poor girl. I hope they find them.