Grooming gangs - please check on your teens

[lemmein]

I am unsure whether to put this on here, I might get ripped apart for what some might consider 'stating the bleedin' obvious' but I'm going to anyway.

This year my 15 year old daughter came home late (due in at 10 - arrived home at 11:30). She'd told me that she was going to the cinema with her friend. When she didn't arrive home I called her friends parents, her friend had been home all evening. Obviously I panicked. When she eventually arrived home we had a huge row and she admitted she had been out with '2 lads'. I grounded her for being late and lying. The next day she ran away.

I contacted the police who informed me that another girl in her school had been involved with an asian grooming gang; the police found my daughter the same night but referred her to social services because they believed she may have been exploited.

Since that day our lives blew up. That night when she supposedly went to the cinema 2 men had picked her up from my doorstep and took her away for sex. I discovered that she had a private number for a taxi driver who she would call at the top of the road to take her to school (I thought she was getting the bus, as always!). She also admitted that on several occasions when she was supposed to be sleeping at her friends she was actually with these men. On one occasion she had been given drink and drugs, fell asleep, and woke up to a man in his late 20s having sex with her. Obviously we were devastated, and the guilt was overwhelming, I'd failed at protecting her by trusting her word.

The police told me to not ground/punish her because it would make these men more appealing to run to; it was an horrific time, I didn't want her to leave the house knowing she would go straight to them, so I put a 'spy' app on her phone. From this I found that she was still meeting these people, on one occasion I found 2 men sat in a car outside her school, the same 2 men who had taken her that night when she was supposed to be at the cinema. I videoed and confronted them; contacted the police, they said they weren't committing a crime!?! It was becoming difficult to protect her from this gang, and from herself really. She couldn't see what they were doing at all.

I don't want to go into every little detail because I don't want to lose the reason for my writing in such a lengthy post. My daughter doesn't fit the 'stereotype' for the victims of this sort of crime. Me and her dad have been together for 19 years and have a good relationship, she's never witnessed any sort of violence/bullying/intimidation. She's currently doing her GCSEs and is predicted As throughout, even when she ran away she took her school books! She's mostly a confident young girl and up until those months I had a good relationship with her, or so I thought. Obviously I'm not saying that those who DO fit the stereotype are fair game to these scum, I just want to make the point that actually, there is no stereotype.

I had become too relaxed, I had believed she was staying at her friends, I stupidly had stopped checking and just trusted her; something I will regret forever, by not checking I feel I had practically giftwrapped my daughter to these men. They could do what they wanted because they knew she had lied and would feel unable to confide in us.

Please, please, please check where your teens are. I know some might find this patronising and think I'm an idiot for not knowing what was going on under my nose (I still can't believe it, so I understand this) but I genuinely had no reason to suspect anything was wrong. Had she not arrived home late that evening I probably still wouldn't know. These people are clever! they worm there way into your teens lives, offer them free lifts, give them free takeaways, invite them to parties with drink/drugs - they are ruthless. They will even wait outside your home, outside schools! It has taken months of intense work with my daughter, from me and also from social services (who have been brilliant btw, if you suspect this is happening to your child please contact them) for her to understand what these men were doing. I'm probably guilty of painting a picture of paedophiles/rapists as being monsters, when actually, as she has found, they are often charming, good looking young men.

Also, check your teens FB friend list, for older males or ones that live outside the area - my daughter's was full of these people. Question if they turn up with new perfume, clothes, even cigarettes - this was one thing I noticed but suspected her and her friends had been shoplifting (now, I wish they had!!). I had lost contact with her friends parents, obviously at 15 year old I no longer stand at the school gates, since speaking to the parents its become apparent that this was happening to all of these girls, not just my daughter. Please, always check where they are. I have been told by the police and social services that these grooming gangs are a huge problem in my area (the north east) - it is unbelievable how they can infiltrate your family and steal your daughter from under your nose. I wish you could all meet my daughter, she's not stupid, yet she believed them?

Sorry for the ridiculously long post; I hope I don't sound patronising, probably most mums do what I stupidly didn't anyways, but if it helps one mum/dad question their teens activities its worth it. These people are scum, please check.

Yes Carpet, it's not the same I agree, but it makes it easier for pedophiles when the lines of "normal" sexual behaviour are blurred for young girls. The gangs sound very determined, I'm looking forward to a Mumsnet expert panel or awareness campaign to learn more about it.

It's been on my mind since reading OP's post, which is so very sad and upsetting. to OP for being to brave in coming forward and sharing her story to raise awareness.

I do rememebver at school we were told about CULTS, sending out people to befriend gap year people at bus stations and how they would do it...

Carpetbagger grooming is grooming, whether it's a cult or for sex, I would say it's pretty much the same technique. It's the first part of the cycle of abuse. With teenagers it's that much easier because they are programmed to take risks at that age, and the part of their brain that deals with social functioning is highly sensitised.

Unfortunately paedophiles and cults recognised this a long time ago. We have to teach teenagers about themselves as much as we have to teach them about their potential abusers.

They are sexual predators but not paedophiles.

I doubt whether it would be deemed to be in the public interest to prosecute for consensual sex with a girl a few weeks off 16 ( which if she is Y11 she must be) .In reality what difference does a few months make?

unreal

I meant we were warned about this at school in some detail and I took it on board,

I think young girls should also be warned about these organised grooming gangs as well.

sunshine they are paedophiles, that is fact and not disputed.

they are and have been prosecuted.

Parental these girls have to some extent already been groomed by watching porn and having porn sent to them. They may well enjoy it themselves, we can't paint them as being innocent and virginal, they have normalised all kinds of sex and probably want sex as much as any male. That's a big part of the problem that most people won't address.

You can't say that of a child, if they're under 14 it would be illegal but I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of under 14 females at least explored porn, I'm not even sure I want to know the statistics. When they do they probably go into a kind of shock and become numb to it all. Some probably are repulsed, some might be terrified but some won't. My guess is (and I find it very uncomfortable to even think about it) that they have been pre-groomed anyway. Their abusers will know this. This is where we have to make big choices about where we step in as adults. In my view it's far too late but it's not impossible to help those girls understand that none of this was really their choice and that they can forgive themselves.

Meanwhile PC plod is oiling the chain on his creaky old bike to come to the rescue...

Reading the OP, has horrified me as to this exploitation of young girls in this country, why are our courts not giving out life imprisonment for the pepertrators, my opinion on this would see them all castrated before being locked up for life.

ubnreal

I very clearly remember being 15.

Honestly you seem to be missing the point here.

It doesnt matter what porn or anything else they have been exposed too.

You seem to think the girls in some shape or form are ready for it.

Potentially through dint of nature they are, its an age when children get BF and GF.

However children naturally becoming more sexually aware however this happens, then walking into a set up gang, a well oiled machine with tactics and techniques to rape under age girls is nothing to do with anything.

I'm not even sure I want to know the statistics. When they do they probably go into a kind of shock and become numb to it all. Some probably are repulsed, some might be terrified but some won't

nothing pre grooms you for being plied with alcohol then handed round twenty men.

its agaisnt the law and nothing these girls have seen or done makes it in any their fault!

he gangs sound very determined

its far more then determination, its like a business, a job! its a well oiled thought out machine

Carpetbagger
It has a lot to do with it. They have normalised and desensitised themselves in a way that you would never have at the age of 15 (assuming you are about my age). It's not in the same league. This is precisely the problem, they won't be worried about people filming it or being passed around from one man to the next, it's what all the 'other girls' do. So I'm really not missing the point I'm sorry but I think you are.
The justice system is finding it very difficult to tackle the very grey area between abuse and consent.

In case you think I'm victim blaming, far from it - this is what I said earlier -

In my view it's far too late but it's not impossible to help those girls understand that none of this was really their choice and that they can forgive themselves.

my opinion on this would see them all castrated before being locked up for life I guess that is my knee jerk response...but I would never advocate that the criminal justice system be based on knee jerk responses.

Thankfully the latest cases have worked out that grey area.
Girls no matter how normalised they find premeditated group gang rape and grooming should not be subjected to it.

They are not paedophiles. They are not having sex with 14/15/16 year olds because they are sexually attached to pre pubescent children. They are having sex with 14/15/16 year olds because they are sexually attracted to post pubescent females and can exploit their naivety and vulnerability in order to sell them on. Imagine a 20 yo bloke trying to chat up a 19 or 20 yo woman with a kebab and a bottle of Stolli, persuading her to have sex and then telling her that she needs to do it for his mate to, because all the girls are doing it and I won't see you again if you don't, and picking her up from work in his 2005 Peugeot with a happy meal and introducing her to more of his 'mates' who have all given him £20 to fuck her. It doesn't work.

Thank you for sharing. I showed it to my very grown up 12 year old & talked about it with her. (the one who is going to the cinema with her friends tomorrow night ...)

it really does not matter what these girls have seen, normalised etc. it shouldn't matter if these girls have been sexually active from the age of 12.

it's illegal to groom girls, illegal to give alcohol and drugs to children, illegal to have sex with anyone who is too drunk/stoned/whatever to give consent even if they are of age. the problem is that we are mixing up 'sex' and sexual abuse here and it's that exact pretense that they are somehow the same thing in the eyes of police and prosecutors and sadly lots of people as we're seeing that allows them to get away with it and for it not to be prosecuted or taken seriously by police.

re: when the OP told the police her daughter had been raped whilst unconscious his question was when her 16th birthday was.

they need massive training to be aware that this is not the same as a parent being upset that her 15yo has had sex with her slightly older boyfriend. if i wake up unconscious with a stranger raping me my age has bugger all to do with it - whether i'm a teenager or an old lady - rape is rape.

girls might well like smoking cigs and drinking vodka and looking like a big girl in a nice car - it doesn't mean they like being gang raped, drugged, passed around etc and the fact they did the former shouldn't be seen as consent to the latter. if WE have that muddled in our heads, if the police have it muddled what on earth chance is there of a child realising no, just because i did a, doesn't mean i deserve b or asked for it and yes of course i can go tell someone that b happened and get help without them saying, ah but you were loving that vodka and attention weren't you? and you are nearly 16?

HoneyBadger hear hear. Well said.

we're just going to need a point blank law such as that where a large age gap, alcohol /drugs or signs of organised behaviour involving more than one male are apparent prosecution is mandatory.

we need something black and white that forces police and courts to process these things.

and where prosecution is mandatory and every case gets tried THERE you'll get your confirmation to girls that this isn't normal or ok and that look at what's involved in these cases etc if you're so keen to educate girls on their behaviour.

more importantly we'll have a clear message going out that even if you get off at trial 9 times out of 10 you will not get away with this invisibly and with impunity and we will be sniffing around the rest of your lives and how you make a living and other ties to criminality. currently they've no disincentive for this. they know if they pick 14 and 15 yos the police won't even bother to come talk to them let alone prosecute.

sorry! one more!

AND if they have to investigate every time can you imagine how many avenues to trafficking and dealing in women will be closed down? how quickly you could discover the entire fucking network and plug the holes if you were trying and banking data on every single incidence? plus get these guys on the sex offenders list asap to in itself protect future girls.

Honey badger I agree with you that it's wrong all the way down the line and existing law and police understanding of the definition of rape and grooming leaves a lot to be desired.

OPs daughter was raped but she won't press charges because she doesn't see it like that. This is the problem. She probably thinks it was her choice. The police know it wasn't, that she was groomed and therefore choice is not an issue. If she was under 14 it is child abuse without a question. But this girl was 15 so they need evidence that it was forced, even if it was just her words.

Girls need to learn the difference between consent and abuse. Most do not and the boys around them also don't. Hell, I didn't until I was about 30 so many parents don't understand either but I didn't grow up with pornography so easily available. This is what needs to be tackled, the definition of consent.

I hope that OPs dd goes through a stage of healing and learning to understand what's been happening, I can imagine hat this will be very hard to work through. One thing that's good though, with these high profile historic cases coming to justice, these lads think they are getting away with it now but one day, it could be in years to come, they may get that tap on the shoulder. Perhaps sending this message out to young men would also help.

she shouldn't need to 'press' charges. several crimes have been committed. how are girls meant to 'learn' if police and criminal justice system refuses to and if people like yourself pretend it's a complicated matter and responsiblity lies with girls?

The system has concluded that where a 15 year old has sex it sometimes is consensual. The age of consent being 16 is a bit arbitrary it seems. I have no idea why this grey area exists except to protect older teenage boys who don't know any better. I would take the age of consent up to 18 for that reason. Call me old fashioned.

The crime needs to have evidence, the word of the mother isn't enough. I think it should be.

girls might well like smoking cigs and drinking vodka and looking like a big girl in a nice car - it doesn't mean they like being gang raped, drugged, passed around etc and the fact they did the former shouldn't be seen as consent to the latter
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