To be absolutely steaming about having a free copy of the Sun delivered by Royal Mail?

[Sixweekstowait]

I know I am not BU. I am going to post it back to Sun HQ in an unstamped envelope ( will probably tear it into pieces before I do). Who will join me?

I did yes. Post Hillsborough though

I explain to my three year old that if you hurt someone you apologise for it. But an apology doesnt take the hurt away, it doesnt make his brothers bruise disappear. No matter how much he didnt mean to hurt his little brother, he did, and he has to make up for it, he cant take it away.

My three year old child understands this most of the time

I hope my analogy is clear enough.

I think that sums it up perfectly Beyond.

Harry Arnold wrote the original draft for the Sun's Hillsborough article. He claims that it was presented as allegation and the Kelvin McKenzie changed it to present it as fact.

He's quoted as such here in the Guardian, but as we know, you can't believe everything you read in the papers...

www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2012/sep/07/hillsborough-disaster-sun?guni=Article:in%20body%20link

That's true about Harry Arnold. He left the paper very soon afterwards

The analogy would be better if you said someone in Mr Smith's class, hit your son. It caused a scar. The boy apologised to your son but years later your son still hates whoever may be in Mr Smith's class now.

(Heads off to retrieve said rag from recycling bin to use as cat tray liner. One of elderly cat's steaming turds is about right for that filthy Murchoch mag )

never mess with a scouser, fifi, is what it comes down to.

Likewise we still speak about the war and remember it, but we don't punish the people that live in Germany now.

Not but likewise I wouldn't expect them to go on about their proud military history on holocaust day for example.

Mr smiths class is not a brand fifi.

There are many advantages to having a brand, loyalty from customers (even when the editor changes or the political viewpoint), easy to identify, seen as belonging to a 'group' (eg the working class men). If a brand fucks up, it takes more than an apology for people to forget.

A brand takes on its own persona. Once the brands reputation is damaged, its hard to fix that.

Can't really take anything you say as fact or knowledge if you worked for that piece of shit.

Nancy worked with him

I have worked with some horrible people but that does not mean I take on their opinions

Hmmm I don't agree in this case.

Something that was on my Facebook today. The sun should be ashamed

maddy - you honestly think that happened? That somebody at The Sun told the caller to 'get over it'?

It's nonsense

Well, my free copy arrived. It's quite thin, not a normal newspaper weight at all. And just all football and ING-ER-LAND stuff and no boobs. It's the first thing ds1 aged 8 has picked up and read voluntarily for ages and ages so that has to be a good thing.

I don't think it is. I remember it well. I remember my friends dad who was killed there. I remember the kids that were told. I remember the gagging of the truth. I remember the lies told by the sun before any facts were established

Lies!!! Not kids :)

No free copy here(London), not sure if I'm relieved or annoyed that I don't have one to send back.

I got a sun thing today as well.. it isn't the proper sun though, it's just like an insert saying 'free historic edition for 22 million homes',..it does have a buy one get one free code for dominos pizza if you're into that sort of thing.

jay, I'm in London and I got one. Not greater London, London London.

Words fail me.

The sun and NOTW are the same thing to me and thousands of other people.

The sun also didn't bother to report the Milly Dowler hacking story terribly well. I wonder why

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/07/milly-dowler-story-sun-page

The Freepost address is legit? If so, I'll tape it to a phone directory!