To think that vagina is not the only word for it?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Dd and I call it a noo noo or foo foo. She is 4. Lots of people say that vagina is the only acceptable term but it sounds so clinical. At this age I think noo noo is fine...and cute.I dont even call it a vagina.

But even if a child knows the correct terminology, abusers are deceitful and do all they can to avoid a disclosure. So I feel even if a child is aware of correct terminology the context of the abuse and the way in which it is likely to be disclosed would often not be as strait forward as including correct anatomical descriptions even if a child knows them, therefore further clarity and investigation would need to be carried out to gain clarity and allow a child to make further disclosures. Correct anatomical terms would not play a significant part in gaining clarity surrounding initial disclosures and would not be overly relevant in the work carried out after an understood disclosure.

I would put money on it being the abuser who used the term putting cookies in the cookie jar, or petting the kitty, which the child is repeating, regardless of whether or not they know the correct word.

Of course it is. Which is why it's important to teach kids the correct words in schools and with other adults so that correct terms are more common knowledge.

I think we're going to go the route of using correct words. At the moment our main concern is correctly wiping after using the toilet and I've found myself saying "wipe the front" or "wipe the back". Time to grow some...

But what I meant was, if someone was listening to that conversation and dismissed it because of the terminology used, then the child knowing the correct word would be neither her not there.

*here nor there

Eminybob, I think the point others are making is that that conversation would take the form of correct terminology in the first place, ie flower or cookie jar wouldn't be used, but the disclosing child would use vulva or vagina.

However I don't agree that would necessarily be the case due to the other factors surrounding abuse, disclosures are more than often very subtle when considering very young children. Therefore correct terms in my opinion is very much a red herring.

The child protection issue isn't just about disclosure. It is also about police interviews. A very precise description of hideous events is necessary in CSA cases. This is made much harder if the child doesn't know the correct terms.

Even if it isn't your experience of child protection, then believe me it still is an issue. Utterly depressing.

Quite apart from the potential abuse issue, why would you want to imply to your child that their genitals are shameful in any way? Nose, arm, penis...

Girly bits. It's obvious to anyone what that means. They also know there are three holes, one for poo, one for wee and one for babies.

My DDs have front and back bottoms and 'girly bits'. I never thought anything about it until I read MN.
To the child protection argument - why would knowing (actually mine do - so rather 'commonly referring') to her vagina or vulva be any different from front bottom...and as other said I doubt the abused child's parents had called it her cookie jar...
Mine had (have) tummy aches - or even a stomach aches - not pains in their abdomens - maybe that would confuse or mislead a medic?

I don't think it would be the case either. If it is overheard between children, then it is unlikely the child realises it is wrong, so is repeating the abuser.
If they do know it's wrong and are going to an adult to tell them, then I would like to think that to an educated person, the context would be clear, regardless of the actual word used.

Don't get me wrong, I plan to teach my kids the correct words, but will probably also use colloquial words around the home.

However, as much as we can debate it on here, that is likely to be the case for most families, and of course other cultures, or people for whom English is not their first language. It's up to us as adults to read between the lines and determine the context. Especially if you have a job working with children.

But tits closed even in case cases where descriptions are needed the reliance on correct words is still very much a red herring. It may lead to more clarity but the is no way to determine that even a child who knows correct words are using them in the correct context if used at all.

Ds' call there bits a wink or willy but do know that it is called a pens. It did come to light while watching BGT that they did not know the word testicles after they heard it and Ds2 (nearly 6) asked what they were and before I could answer ds1 (8.5) replied 'it's another word for glasses'. Once I regained my composure I explained what they actually were!
Dd has named her own 'woo , no idea where that came from but then she calls her tongue her 'lick' and her nose was her 'ning ning' for a while. She is just 3!
I don't see the big deal tbh. If a child said to me that some one was touching them and I didn't recognise the term they used I would ask gentle questions anyway or when I was working I would have reported it to the class teacher. I am sure most people would.

I'm cringing that a grown woman might cringe in using the words vagina and vulva to her children. They're just the names of body parts, so why do so many people feel the need to hide behind euphemisms. My use of the real terms has little to do with child protection and everything to do with the fact that I'm not embarrassed by my vagina and certainly don't want my daughters to grow up thinking theirs are something cringeworthy that shouldn't be mentioned in public.

Why does this debate have to be rehearsed every single week? If someone has a question can't they look up previous threads to see if it's already been covered? That's what the search box is for.

Meloria, that's not how mumsnet works. It's not a reference tool, it's a conversation. If people want to start a new conversation on an old topic you are free not to participate.

Call it whatever the bloody hell you want and sod everyone else, at least you are teaching your child about it.

I taught my DDs that they had 3 holes from as soon as they talked about bodily functions. Like LizzieMint the were a wee hole, poo hole and baby hole- it makes sense.

I'm not cringing
On one hand we can say they are just like an arm or a leg etc -
and on the other the eg NSPCC wants us to teach children that some parts are private for protection reasons...
And they are different ...because we keep them private - not because we are embarrassed about them - but for modesty

and we want to keep that distinction to protect all children...

I was taught it was vagina from a young age and that was fine. Even then my friends and their mums saying things like flower, floo, Fanny etc creeped me out. I'll teach kids vulva as that is correct. There's something about calling it a pretty girly euphemism that I find distasteful.

I agree with people who are saying that disclosures aren't always obvious.

I work with kids, but I'm not a child protection professional. I have basic training in how to spot signs of abuse, and how to report them if I do. So yes, if a child came to me upset and said someone touched their twinkle, it'd be pretty obvious. But if I overheard a discussion between 2 kids about it, I might assume they were arguing over a cuddly toy or similar.

it is indeed cringeworthy that grown women can't bring themselves to say vagina or vulva and that one gets called a pedant for wanting people to be clear about the difference. As many people have said it's the fact that there is no 'willy' word that is the problem- a word that is universally understood and is a direct equivalent of the formal word- and it has no offensive overtones. The fact that we lack such a word reflects society's ambivalence (at least) to women's genitals and by extension to women.
We all need to grow up, get a grip and call things what they are.
noonoo=security blanket IME
abusers may make up words to cover their tracks...a child who can say or think 'but that's not my twinkle/cookie jar/kitten, it's my vulva' is safer
plus, when our dds do grow up, how are they going to feel at the doctors having to say the dreaded words....vulva...vagina....for the first time out loud. Is that going to make it easier or harder for them to get the care they need? Or do they have the embarassment of saying 'well dr I'm here because I've got a terribly itchy tuppence'
FFS

Yes so what is wrong with my female genitalia is located here and consists of...or male genitalia consists of.

I like the underwear rule but my dd likes to discuss thing in more depth. So I tell her the reason for privacy of your genitalia is because they are sexual and reproductive organs and that sometimes adults or other children Inappropriately and wrongly involve children in sex acts and children should not be involved in sex acts which are not appropriate to their age or which cause them to be harmed or hurt. She is aware that she is can ask me for clarity on what may be appropriate or inappropriate.

The child protection issue isn't just about disclosure. It is also about police interviews. A very precise description of hideous events is necessary in CSA cases. This is made much harder if the child doesn't know the correct terms.

This.

At a discussion on sex ed at our DDs school the HT told us about an abuse case she was involved in as a witness. The case collapsed because the child was unable to properly and clearly articulate what had happened to them. So I do believe that it's very important for kids to know the correct anatomical names for their body parts, even if they don't use them in everyday speech.

DD calls her vulva 'my velvet' and her little brother has a 'peanuts'

Girls bits and boys bits in our house