To think that vagina is not the only word for it?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Dd and I call it a noo noo or foo foo. She is 4. Lots of people say that vagina is the only acceptable term but it sounds so clinical. At this age I think noo noo is fine...and cute.I dont even call it a vagina.

What I mean is if you heard a child say "he touched my flower" you're not going to think she meant he touched her ear. For example.

Not. This. Again.

You'd ask more questions wouldn't you? Where's your noonoo? For eg.

Jif

I don't use the correct terms unless speaking to a Doctor.
We girls had a foof or fairy growing up and my ds's used willy.

Hearing a young child say vagina or vulva goes through me like nails scaped down a blackboard.

Balls! If a child repeatedly said to the school nurse ... Uncle Fred keeps putting cookies in my cookie jar and the nurse didn't query this then s/he needs sacking shooting in the same way if someone ignored Uncle Fred touched my flower.

Stop hiding your Minge Pedantry behind imagined child protection scenarios, I have been on more safeguarding training than you can shake a stick at, some excellent, some utter tosh - it's frightening how it seems that anyone can set up as a trainer in these areas and companies use them because they are cheap.

As an aside I did a first aid course about 4 years ago where the trainer told us if someone had a 'Grand Mal fit' a term not used in health care for about 20 years then to put a spoon in their mouth to stop them swallowing their tongue!! this chap also did Safeguarding courses - it was probably him that perpetrated the 'Cookie jar story'!!

No I'd think he had touched something non body related which was a flower or had one on it. I wouldn't think of body parts at all.

Flower was probably a bad example, to use, but I think most educated people would get the gist of the context. And ask more questions.

But they are more likely to be taking to someone who is not the school nurse.

Kids talk a lot of nonsense really and when they say stuff I don't understand I don't question then closely in case they are taking about their genitals!

And if noonoo apparently means genitals then that means dd well be open to close concerned questioning?

Can none of you see why so much different and not widely known terms is not ideal, generally?

I agree Back. Maybe you shouldn't work in child protection if you only know the terms penis, vulva and vagina.

People who refuse to acknowledge that their daughters have vaginas/(vulvas/whatever) and insist on 'bits' or 'front bum' are beyond my comprehension. And the people who say that 5 year olds don't know that vaginas exist? Really?

When children aren't taught the correct names for their genitals it makes them more vulnerable to abusers creating a culture of secrecy and shame around their genitals and this keeping abuse secret.

Ds calls them colloquially a willy and Minnie but he also knows they are called penis and vagina.

I'd not heard of tuppence or mini or noo noo as being names for bits before mn, and I'm a teacher...

fairy

Fucking hell.

I just don't understand the squeamishness of using the proper word

It's like someone arbitrarily said "they can use these bits for sex later, best not teach them what they're called as children"

It is attaching shame to a body part. A foot is a foot, a hand is a hand, a vulva is a vulva. "I've hurt my hand" completely understood, "jim hurt my foot" I get what you say, "jim hurt my flower", I've not got a clue. "Twinkle is hurt" I'm assuming a broken toy.

I haven't heard half of the cutesy names mentioned on here. If you're not from a family or a community that uses those names, you need to know that other people won't recognise them.

Why make life harder? Who decided a small child saying vulva sounded bad?

I don't call ducks "quack quacks" either.

I would always prefer to use correct anatomical terms because I don't like to convey the idea that there is something cutesy or embarrassing about genitalia.

Having said that, I think the problem with girls is the range of terminology. People almost always use "willy" with boys, and everyone knows what that means, but there seems to be a very wide range indeed of euphemisms for female genitalia. It would be much better if there were just one. I have a particular dislike of "front bottom" because it implies an equivalence between two parts of the anatomy that have entirely different functions.

Most schools (and groups) do follow the NSPCC's guidelines and give out good "what's acceptable" advice on adults touching them.

It is usually a throw away remark that sparks off an abuse investigation. One example is (that I was part of) a teacher was settling a child to sleep on a residential and was asked why he wasn't stroking "Rodger" to sleep "like Uncle .. Does when he puts me to bed?" You can guess what Rodger is.

Another is watching the children role play RL and everyone knowing what personal boundaries should be, so they can report for their friends.

Abusers use made up names, anyone working with Children don't ignore "throw away" remarks.

Knowing the correct words doesn't make the proving if a child under 10 any easier, or means that the CPS will take up the case.

Even Vulva isn't always right, my DD's didn't just fiddle in any one place, it was just generally in their knickers.

"Hands off your bits (although mine had WooWoo as well), was a fitting description.

Ds calls them colloquially a willy and Minnie but he also knows they are called penis and vagina

Yes. Cutesy names are colloquial, everyday words but the child should still be taught the proper anatomical names as well.

I definitely wouldn't agree with teaching the colloquial names instead of the proper names.

I would say that most of the terms used are pretty universal. Having seen countless threads on here rehashing the same argument, there are only maybe on average 10-20 variations on the theme for vulva that are mentioned. And considering this is an international web site with millions of members, I think that generally most people will be on the same wavelength.

If I worked specifically in child protection, or with kids in general, I would make it my business to research the wider populations terminology.

I've just remembered an incident years ago. I was in hospital visiting a friend who'd just had a baby, and her young daughter (aged about 4 or 5) was also visiting. My friend said something about her waters breaking and the daughter asked what she meant. She said, "when you're having a baby, water comes out of your bottom." I remember feeling totally incredulous - this was a left-wing feminist and she was telling her daughter about water coming out of your bottom. She didn't even say front bottom. I mean, how bloody confusing is that.

The thing about very young children disclosing abuse, is that for eg. a 4 year old is unlikely to take their teacher/nursery nurse aside and say "I have to tell you something that is bothering me - Uncle Pete keeps touching my flower/twinkle/biscuit". It's much more likely to be a throwaway comment or something that comes up in play. An adult is more likely to start listening closely if a child is playing with dolls and says "bad baby, don't touch the vagina/vulva/fanny" than "don't touch the noonoo/flower" iyswim.

Yes. This.

If a child took anyone aside and said that someone was touching their whatever, everyone would take it very seriously. But kids don't do that because if an adult is doing something they assume it's ok, and don't treat it the way an adult would if they got touched inappropriately. Most kids don't realize something was wrong until they're much older. Hopefully that's changing with sex ed in schools, but generally it's when kids are adults that they understand the gravity of what happened.

So if a kid is nonchalantly saying someone is putting cookies in their cookie jar, or petting their kitty with no sense of urgency or upset, I'm sure the nurse wouldn't think to look into it.

This problem gets worse with adults that have no training, as a kid may mention it in passing to another adult they trust. Even if they're told to tell, they may tell or mention it thinking they told and that their job is done. They don't make sure the adult knows what they mean or that they take it seriously.

Fwiw, I have every intention of teaching my DS that his penis is called a penis, however I'm pretty sure it'll get called a willy when we are taking about it. Because it just is.

I would put money on it being the abuser who used the term putting cookies in the cookie jar, or petting the kitty, which the child is repeating, regardless of whether or not they know the correct word.

My girls have known from a very young age (2ish?) that they have 3 holes - very prosaically called wee hole, poo hole and baby hole as opposed to a willy like their brother.
My MIL was rather taken aback when my DD announced to her that she had 3 holes - she had to stop and count!