To think not being able to drive puts you at a disadvantage?

[Sparklingbrook]

Just been chatting to a friend. Her daughter is 17 and although they can afford for her to have lessons, and she is able to she isn't going to bother learning to drive.

I was thinking about all the things I wouldn't have been able to do if I couldn't drive. For a start DS1 wouldn't be at the school he is, and the jobs I had I couldn't have got to by public transport.

I know she could learn in the future but surely it's easier to do it when young and a bit fearless?

I know it's none of my business too, but I hope my two DSs will be able to learn when the time comes.

The thing is, if a thread started in good faith by an OP doesn't end well, it's not really the OP's fault.

Many threads don't end well but as long as they're started in good faith (as seems to be the case here) it's something we as adults learn to get over...or choose to hide the thread and let others get on with it.

My dd's best friend's mum cannot drive and so she has to walk her dd over for a playdate. Heck, I end up offering to pick her dd up and drive her home because it really is a waste of time. If her siblings were too little to be left at home, they would have to walk as well to the playdate and then do another round trip on foot for the pick up.

I cannot tell you how much this winds me up...however well intended.

I have lost count of the amount of (constant) car drivers who pull a shocked face when they find out I'm simply doing a 20/30 minute walk somewhere. They automatically say, "Nooo don't be silly, I'll pick you/your DC up and drop you/them home"...like I've just announced I'm going to kick a litter of kittens to death

And don't even start me on my DS2's friend's Mum, who won't hear of him walking the 15 mins back from school because (shock horror) it's raining!

Honestly, I know their hearts are in the right place but bloody hell. I've lived here 19 years and I can genuinely say there are at least 5 neighbours who I have never seen going anywhere on foot ever.

Learning to drive is a necessity where I live. Most people learn at 16; it's a rite of passage. My son is 15.5 at the end of this month, and he's studying for his temporary permit.

I can see not learning if you live somewhere with good public transportation, but I'd probably still learn. I think it's an important skill to have.

Blueshoes you might think that's a waste of time but only because your car has got you so used to the idea that you could get there almost instantly. Why is 30 min or even an hour walking a waste of time when 30 min or an hour driving wouldn't be? Just because you get further away in a car? You might still only be visiting one friend or dropping a child off at one playdate.

I'll encourage my DD's to learn to drive as early as possible while they still live at home because once you get older and have bills to pay, learning to drive/buying first car and insurance would not be acheivable for many. Thats been the case for friends of mine.

I learnt to drive at 17, ten years ago now. I recently had to cope without my car for a whole week while it was repaired. Life was hard! The bus was fine but a week was long enough!

I've seen some pretty shitty driving related threads on here in my time, including one where the OP postulated that non-driving women were a disgrace to their sex. I know that wasn't your intention Sparklingbrook!

I do agree with your OP that one might as well learn while young if given the opportunity. But I also have a bee in my bonnet about car-dependency in general and it's detrimental effects, probably as a result of the culture shock of moving from London to the South Central USA.

Blue shoes, can you not accept that walking can be a valuable and enjoyable activity in itself? I'm getting fresh air and exercise, and so are my children. There are plenty of interesting sights along the way, and we can stop at a cafe or a playground, or to chat to a neighbour. I certainly don't see it as a waste of time.

Even though DH can drive he likes to walk to work so he can clear his head in preparation for a day sitting in front of a screen in the office. I can have a good think while I'm walking. I'm sure Nietzsche said something about perambulation aiding thought.

I passed in my mid 20's after 2 kids. I've managed to travel to a fantastic college the last year to gain 6 highers, which would have taken an hour and a half to get to on 2 buses. Drop kids at free breakfast club then 18 mins on motorway . The expense I no longer notice. I remember recently the car was in getting serviced, cost me £15 for me & dc on public transport to go errands. I put that amount petrol in the car per week plus if you figure in the amount childcare would cost me if I had to leave home around 7 every morning. Passing my test is still 1 of my proudest moments 4 years on. Pregnant with dc3 and excited due to never having driven pregnant before.

Car dependency is tied often enough to privatisation of public transport and its high cost.

Also the reliance on manual transmission cars so many say, 'I can't' when actually, they can.

It's a no brainer in many suburban and rural areas and not as simple as, 'Just move to London'. Or even 'just move' to a more urban area. Far away, and we all know what private renting is like.

Point scoring is ridiculous. The car is here to stay, and as long as it's overall cheaper and more reliable than public transport, people who live in certain areas will need to use them.

I live somewhere with very good public transport. But it is still much quicker if you want to nip to lots of places, to take the car.

HoneyDragon I would only get the bus to MK, I find that grid system completely disorientating. I feel like I'm going past the same block 20 times!

Oh God, I am NOT in favour of banning cars! I know they are essential for non-urban living, and plenty of people choose that lifestyle. I know not everyone can or wants to live in London!

As I said, the city I live in now is a very extreme example, where even when living in the urban centre I've ended up feeling as if I have no choice but to drive. It's given me food for thought about urban planning and infrastructure, and how residents who cannot drive because of poverty or disability are even further disenfranchised.

Anyway, I'm now a bit worried that I'm coming across as a naive tit, so I'm going to say g'night. I also just took a cheeky swig from DH's wine glass and almost swallowed a large bug that was swimming in it. That'll teach me.

I tried to learn to drive! But even though I specifically picked a driving instructor who was supposed to be helpful with nervous drivers, it wasn't happening. I can't tell my left from my right and have various coordination difficulties, and although obviously I'm safe to wander about on foot, I was the opposite of safe on the road. My instructor said "Look, just don't bother. There are some people who can't drive. You're one." :D

It happens! It's not always laziness or being scared. I could park after about 15 tries, but only if there were no other cars nearby because I couldn't see where I was relative to them. I couldn't go above 20mph without panic, and the reason I panicked was that I couldn't picture in my head where the accelerator was so I was as likely to speed up as anything else. I didn't think I could reliably stop and the instructor had to take over. I also didn't know what the instructor meant when she said "Turn left here" she had to point or it was hit and miss if I went the right way or not

My biggest thing was going round corners. I can't. I either massively overshot them on the wrong side of the road or drove across them. Whatever people have in their heads that tells them corners and distance, I don't have. It was a wild guess every time, and usually wrong.

I believe the roads are safer without me on them :D and I won't attempt to learn to drive again. Some people just shouldn't, and it's not a reflection on them.

well, i didnt learn to drive til my mid twenties (parents paid for brother to learn at 17 because it was a valuable life skill wtf?). i have always said that my kids would learn as soon as they were able because it gives you options. you can set up your life without a car or with a car- you have the choice.

dd1 who is 19 couldnt be bothered (because she is at uni in london) arrgghh. dd2, rapidly approaching 17 cannot wait to drive.

I also want to say, it seriously hasn't been a barrier to my career . I have to travel about, but there is public transport. I have not had a "but you can't drive so you can't go there/do that!" moment. If I have to go somewhere really rural, someone would probably pick me up in their car - aside from that I don't beg lifts, and there are options like videoconferencing, teleconferencing, using online sites....no-one needs to be stuck in their house and unable to work because they can't drive in Britain in the 21st century.

I live in the Scottish central belt and have to regularly travel to more rural areas. Either Scottish public transport is the best in the world, or a lot of people think that non-drivers are suffering far more than we are.

In my family your 17th birthday present was driving lessons until you passed your test. No choice in the matter, it was something we just always knew growing up that we would do when we were 17. I think this mostly stemmed from the fact that my Mum couldn't drive and it was always something she wished she'd done at a young age.
I think she was right and am very very grateful I passed at 17. I will do the same for my kids.

And the rush I got when I passed, the feeling of freedom the first time I drove on my own! I didn't expect it but it felt wonderful, like independence slapping me round the face.

"no-one needs to be stuck in their house and unable to work because they can't drive in Britain in the 21st century" - I think this depends on the job that you do.

Among my friends there are lots that would be unable to do their job without being able to drive, it's fine if you work in an office / shop / factory in a town with good transport links, but if you are a home carer / plumber / district nurse or need to pick up supplies / deliver your goods / carry tools / spares etc your own vehicle makes a big difference.

500smiles I agree with you for those jobs, but if you really cannot drive (as I can't) you need to retrain. A plumber who refused to drive would be out of luck (wouldn't s/he learn to drive first?) and if they couldn't drive then they would have to reconsider their chosen career. There are loads of jobs which require no driving at all.

I had merry visions of me driving about everywhere, until I realised I couldn't take a corner. Before that I even had a car picked out. It was a shame, but such is life.

Well yeah duh she's disadvantaged. I didn't learn till I was 22 and wish I done it when I was 17 like most people. Maybe she is scared like I was.

Grinning at the Milton Keynes comments, my colleagues are still chuntering that they now have to pay £1.60 to park all day in the city centre where previously it was free.

Someone mentioned earlier about applying and getting a job that required a licence even though no driving was routinely required. I thought this wasn't allowed due to disability legislation?

I passed my test at 23. My life would have been a nightmare if I had not, especially as later on I had twins when DD was in a school 30 mins away. Imagine the tuts I would have got getting my double pram on the bus! Also living abroad in a rural area with no public transport and a DH who worked away for weeks at a time. I would have had to walk 5 miles down dusty dual carriageways with 3 DC to the nearest town to get food.

But then again, I would not have had to become 'mum's taxi'!

DD is 17. I am not encouraging her to take lessons now as I think she is not ready and she also will be paying for them herself so needs a job first and the money to get a car. Plus the insurance is too high at her age. By the time she is 21/22, I will definitely be nagging her to be starting to drive, same with my other DCs.

I used the bus the other day for the first time in years just because nearly 4 year old DC4 has never, ever been on one and we had been singing 'wheels on the bus' and he said he wanted to go on one. Never again, I found it as depressing as hell.

I live in an area with good public transport links, and live in walking distance of two train stations and a bus station. I've always managed to get around, and wasn't bothered about learning to drive as a teenager.

I'm now 28, and have been learning to drive for a year and a half. It's the small but annoying things that have motivated me. I have to take two of my cats for their vaccinations at the same time, and the vets is about a ten minute walk away, but because they're heavy I can't carry them and it's a £10 round trip in a taxi. My journey to work would take about 20 minutes by car, but takes an hour by bus because of walking and waiting, and if the bus is late I'm late. I am fed up of public transport now, even though all my journeys are manageable.

That said, I don't think 17 would have been the right age to learn for me. I am hopelessly uncoordinated, and for the first six months of driving lessons I was so scared that I couldn't even remember which way was left or right. As a teenager I would have been really embarrassed and upset, and might have given up, but as an adult I can deal with being rubbish at stuff!

I have two SIL who spent loads on money on driving lessons, failing a few times but carrying on until they passed. A few years on and neither of them drive, nor will they as they are too scared to! Mind you they are both in London. I probably would have taken my test earlier if I had not been in London. Had some memorable driving lessons in central London I can tell you!

Inspired by this thread I looked up my public transport options, it's outrageously expensive

A monthly bus pass for our county is £100, so not including DH who could not do his 100 mile round trip commute on it, that would be £300 a month for me and the DCs to have a monthly bus pass.

I have to go to a work conference / training session at our Head Office in a few weeks - the train part of the trip alone is £175 and the journey will take 6 hours, and I would have to go up the night before as I need to go into London and back out again and it wouldn't get me there in time for the start, so would have to pay for a hotel. It will take 2 hours in the car and I can do the trip in one day on less than a tank of fuel.

I've not read the whole thread but has no one mentioned self driving cars yet?

It won't be long before driving will seem as reckless and dangerous as riding a motorbike without a helmet.