to say my ex-h can't have the children for Christmas?

[christmasfairness]

Have NC for this as giving details he and the OW would recognise.

Have been apart from DC father for 4 years now and in that time they have stayed with me for Christmas eve and Christmas day, usually going to ex-H for Boxing day for a day or 2. They are currently 8 and 6.

Ex-H has them one weekend a month, Fri eve to Sun eve. He also has them for 2 hours each week for tea one night. That's it. He has never had them for any of their school holidays, he has never dropped them to or collected them from school. He plays no part in their day to day lives, does none of the 'work' involved in parenting. This is all his choice, he never asks for additional time with them. The day or 2 he usually has them at Christmas has in the past been instead of his usual monthly weekend.

He has asked me if he can have them for Christmas Eve and Day this year. I haven't yet replied and am in two minds. Although we have zero goodwill or relationship, I do try not to antagonise the situation further. Due to the minimal time he sees the children we have very little contact which suits me perfectly.

What I really think is that he can get lost, I do all the work, all year round so I should get the most exciting day of the year with them. He does nothing so why should he? If we had a proper shared parenting relationship then fair enough, take it in turns but we don't.

I could ask them what they want to do, I am pretty sure they would say they want to stay at home but I don't want to put them in a position where they need to choose.

What says MN? AIBU in saying no?

I have no experience of this but as you asked for opinions was all set to say sorry but YABU and could you take the DCs tound after present opening and lunch at yours, until I read that you do all the donkey work and he refuses to negotiate the long summer holidays. I wonder what sparked this off.

round

hiccupgirl, as you were a child, can you really be sure that was the whole story? It isn't unknown for absent fathers to wail about their lack of access but not actually step up to the plate when they are offered it.

I get on fine with my ex, now, and DS sees him every week. But when DS was smaller, ex wouldn't see him for weeks and months at a time. I would beg him to make time for DS, but if I didn't drop everything and deliver DS exactly where and when ex wanted, at ex's convenience - no matter what other plans DV was involved in, or with regard to bedtimes or whatever - I'd get bitter complaints from ex that I was "keeping him from his son". My experience is far from uncommon amongst the separated mothers I know.

Also, DS is allowed a sleepover now, at his dads, but I did not allow it at all after realising that he'd take charge of DS after staying up late, and fall asleep, leaving small DS totally unsupervised. It wasn't safe.

So - I'm a bit sceptical of absent fathers who tell their kids that they would love to see them more but can't because their awful controlling mother won't allow it.

I don't think it's in your DCs best interests for you just to acquiesce in some kind of disembodied idea of "fairness". As the child of divorced parents where my mother did all the real work and my father only bothered with "special" times I am quite clear in my head that it is not particularly in children's interests to allow this unchallenged. Look at what sort of Christmas he'll give them and as honestly as you can assess whether they will enjoy it as much/get as much out of it as they would a Christmas with you. From the description you've given it seems highly unlikely. In those circumstances say "no". Especially if you don't think he would take you to court, or otherwise fight for it.

There is no "magic" to a relationship with a non-resident parent. It is beneficial to the children when the non-resident parent cares about them sufficiently. Then there is something good to build a relationship on. It is not particularly beneficial when the non-resident parent thinks of the children as a nuisence generally but good to show off ocassionally or for some other symbolic gesture. Children do understand that messge and it hurts them. Forcing them to spend time with someone who doesn't really want to look after them is not in their best interests.

Good post Boom

I'm a bit sceptical of absent fathers who tell their kids that they would love to see them more but can't because their awful controlling mother won't allow it.

Me too Pinealike

OP, My XH has 6yo DD once a fortnight from 10am Sat to 6pm Sun. He never sees her at any other time. He refuses to ring her once a week and refuses to have her in the school holidays. The first Christmas that he was gone, I offered him Boxing Day and he said no because he was going to watch football, so he had her the following two days. He said that she would be better off spending Christmas with me because of the extended family that come.

So last Christmas, I took the same arrangement and offered him that. Two weeks before Christmas he asked if he could see her on Christmas Day. I said no because the timing of trying to fit it in around dinner and presents etc was just not possible. He said, other dads get to have their DC at Christmas.

I said, lets talk about other dads shall we, those who have their DC once a week, ring them all the time, have them in the holidays, share the burden of bringing them up? He shut up.

I said that when he takes part in her life on a proper basis and helps out with the general upbringing of her, then we can consider him having special days. But why should I be without her on Christmas Day, when it is me looking after her for 85% of the time?

He was supposed to have her the weekend before Christmas, but then chose to work instead. Says it all doesn't it.......

I did ask DD if she would like to see him on Christmas Day, but she didn't want to as she didn't want to leave my family and her presents. I will very much be guided by her as she grows up and if she wants to see him at Christmas then something will be arranged

Absolutely agreed Boom

I would also add that it's confusing to younger children, and temporarily damaging to the relationship with the RP if they have an NRP who does all the "fun" stuff with them, and then sends them back to moany old mummy who makes them eat vegetables and nags them to do their homework. Good cop/bad cop in a nutshell.

I have this with my older two. They think I'm an arsehole because they have to go to bed at a sensible time to be up for school at home, and I spend my money on crap like the gas bill and rent instead of sweets and pretty dresses (ex doesn't pay maintenance). Obviously I'm not, and they'll figure it out when they're older- I hope !

Disney dads really are bad news. Our children deserve better than some bloke who turns up waving cash when it suits him. They should not be taught to sit by the phone begging for whatever scraps of attention the NRP can be bothered to dish out.

I talked to my DC when they were younger about what they wanted from Christmas Day. They wanted to wake up at home and open their presents and then have some time to play with them. So with that in my mind I told my XH that he could pick them up anytime from 2pm. He never did! They always went Boxing Day instead. They're teens now and can go to their Dad's for Christmas if they want to but they don't. He probably wouldn't want them anyway

Are you able to peacefully coexist in the same room as him? If so, invite him over from Xmas day. I pretty much guarentee he won't come, and you get the moral high ground of having offered him Xmas with his kids.

Just make sure that you can just about stomach it on the offchance that he says yes!

I get slagged off (a lot) for not allowing Ds to fly over and spend a week with his father. Problem is, I've never said he couldn't. All I've asked is for regular contact in one way or another so Ds has the chance to get to know him first. It's never happened. One letter in 10 years, phone calls I could count on one hand and a few emails. He used to see Ds for an hour when he flew over every 18 months - 3 years in between getting pissed with his mates and seeing his family. He's taken Ds to the cinema before and has fallen asleep. What do you do when their father is this shit? Contact isn't for a child's benefit, it's to ease the absent parent's conscience. It was an hour of nothing for Ds as the relationship died years ago. Ds is 15 and doesn't see him now.

I said yesterday that he's only doing this to show off to his new partner and he won't bother after this year, so it will give mixed messages to your children. I still think this. I'd say no but I would offer them a 'warm' welcome to my house as a compromise, but I'm a mug.

I do the "warm welcome" thing on xmas day. It's a bit irritating, as otherwise I'd stay in pjs all day, as would DS (that's our idea of a wonderful holiday!), but eh, it's livable.

Pinealike I know what you mean but was trying to give how it felt like for me. And I know my dad fought to have joint custody and regular access because my mum constantly reminded us how awful it was that he'd done this and basically he should have just disappeared off the face of the Earth in her preference.

Obviously every situation is different and this exDH may well be a total waste of space who does nothing but I'm sure that's not how his kids see him.

I don't think I could hack a Christmas spent with him! There is no way in a million years would he say yes anyway so it's a bit pointless to offer that.

I have never stopped him seeing them, I spent 2 years trying to force him to be more involved, and it's only really the last year I have accepted that I can't and shouldn't and made peace with it in my own mind. It helps that they're a little bigger now, and hence a little easier and I'm cool with them not going to him, I no longer even ask about extra time or holidays as I realised long ago there was no point.

I'd happily do the warm welcome but trust me, he wouldn't tolerate that either. He looks horrified if I even try and speak to him when he collects them.

If they do go, I'll be fine I know, I have a new partner and another DC with him. We'd either go to my or his parents probably and we'd be fine. Our DC is too young to be fussed that his elder siblings weren't there, but I'm sure they would miss their younger sib if they went.

This is very hard. I am literally torn between just saying no, agreeing, or offering a compromise. I make my mind up and then change it 2 minutes later. I honestly do want to do what's right for them, and I really do think they'd prefer to be at home, but if I say no he will be even more unbearable than currently.

If he's seeing them on Boxing Day/the day after then he is spending time with them over Christmas.

" I honestly do want to do what's right for them, and I really do think they'd prefer to be at home, but if I say no he will be even more unbearable than currently." Any shitty behaviour from him shouldn't influence this. The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them, because if you give them what they want they will always want something else. Do what's right for your children first, don't do this because you're worried about what he'll do.

They have a sibling who they won't spend Christmas with?
They will probably want to be there to see DC face on Christmas morning.
I can totally see where you are coming from.
It's so hard.
When it came to my DD I asked her as she was older anyway and an only child.
She went to be with him and has never wanted to again since!
That could happen which means you sacrifice 1 Christmas to get the rest of them.

If you really think that staying at home would be in their best interest tell him that,phrasing it as in the dcs best interest and then do the hardest bit and don't answer him back when he starts
He can go on and on but you don't have to listen or read what he says
Gird those loins and di what's best fir the Dcs good luck

if your dc would prefer to be at home, then do that. put them first. if that's what they would like, that's what they should have. it's their christmas too don't forget.

i would try not to let all this other shit cloud the situation. i know you're trying to do the right thing, but in my opinion, the right thing in this case is to go with what your dc want.

I think it would be very fair to say that you think one parent should have them all day Christmas Eve and early the next morning and the other parent can have them the rest of Christmas and Boxing Day. That way the kids get to see both kids on Christmas. That is the right thing for the kids even if they'd prefer to stay home and ex is a dickwad.

Both parents, not kids

So no-one takes their kids to grandparents for Christmas? They have to wake in their own beds?

Are you ready if your ex does say he wants to see the kids more, would 50:50 care suit you? Would that be okay?

Sorry but I think YABU.

Normally I would say you are being unreasonable.

He doesn't pull his weight? doesn't help? then no; he shouldn't get to have the children on Xmas day. My ex used to get most of the fun part of parenting which could be annoying but he also had them every weekend and took them on holiday twice a year so I was more than happy to alternate Christmases.

In your case, no way.

So no-one takes their kids to grandparents for Christmas? They have to wake in their own beds?

I said earlier that my DC want to wake up at home. What I should have said was that they want to be with me wherever I am. That's where Christmas is for them.

And you're sure you aren't projecting at all? I'm not trying to upset you, but you need to consider that they might just be trying to keep you happy?

Bruno's response early on is perfect. have you considered sending that email?

No, my older two DDs are teens and they don't appear to be in any way concerned about my feelings They also know that I'm happy for them to come and go between us as they please, which they do. And I quite fancy the idea of a Christmas day without kids. I'm sure I'd miss them but the thought of being able to chill out for the day without any squabbling or demands to deal with is very appealing.