to say my ex-h can't have the children for Christmas?

[christmasfairness]

Have NC for this as giving details he and the OW would recognise.

Have been apart from DC father for 4 years now and in that time they have stayed with me for Christmas eve and Christmas day, usually going to ex-H for Boxing day for a day or 2. They are currently 8 and 6.

Ex-H has them one weekend a month, Fri eve to Sun eve. He also has them for 2 hours each week for tea one night. That's it. He has never had them for any of their school holidays, he has never dropped them to or collected them from school. He plays no part in their day to day lives, does none of the 'work' involved in parenting. This is all his choice, he never asks for additional time with them. The day or 2 he usually has them at Christmas has in the past been instead of his usual monthly weekend.

He has asked me if he can have them for Christmas Eve and Day this year. I haven't yet replied and am in two minds. Although we have zero goodwill or relationship, I do try not to antagonise the situation further. Due to the minimal time he sees the children we have very little contact which suits me perfectly.

What I really think is that he can get lost, I do all the work, all year round so I should get the most exciting day of the year with them. He does nothing so why should he? If we had a proper shared parenting relationship then fair enough, take it in turns but we don't.

I could ask them what they want to do, I am pretty sure they would say they want to stay at home but I don't want to put them in a position where they need to choose.

What says MN? AIBU in saying no?

Has he said why he wants them for Christmas this year? I know it should be obvious but given his attitude towards the children the answer might be interesting.

I never spent a Christmas day with my mother. She never wanted too.

Mid-morning compromise is a good solution.

The new year's eve comment is awful though. Ugh.

Dickhead! So he wants to play happy families with his new GF for Christmas Day but STILL doesn't want to contribute to the crappy side that ALL parents have to, i.e. Babysitters being non existent on New Year so you have to stay in.

I'd say "yes you can have for New Year, this year, Christmas next. Crack on"

I don't think YABU at all. Presumably they are old enough to have their own christmas traditions and routines at your house?

I hated going to my dads for christmas as a child. It wasn't my home, and while my dad did make an effort, it wasn't 'my' christmas. I spent my first christmas there at seven and it just didn't feel like christmas to me. My mum used to do the second christmas thing when my dad had me, but it wasn't the same.

However, I may just be projecting and they might have a whale of a time. Whilst I agree you shouldn't ask them directly, could you get someone they trust (a friend or relative, perhaps) to sound them out about it, maybe by just mentioning it in passing?

If they're happy enough about it, then by all means let them go, or arrange a compromise.

Tbh, as a child the best bit was christmas morning and dinner, so maybe dropping them off after dinner would work best? Although I wonder if he'll play the unpaid babysitter card then....

YANBU

I think you should reply along the lines of 'Great that you mentioned the holidays now, maybe we could sit down and work out when we're each going to have the DC during the school holidays for the next year'

Wonder what response you'd get to that!!

Sorry but the title made me laugh. Dunno why but I thought "what? Instead of a turkey?!"

I digress. My question is, if you didn't have the kids what would you do?

Secondly, dependant on age I think I feel it's up to them. One might go but one not for example.

Really I think fuck him, but I'm trying hard to be grown up...!

Fluffy

Great post.

I don't think YABU. He doesn't prioritise the children the rest of the year, so it's unlikely he'd prioritise them on Christmas day.

I also know family judges who think that children should spend Christmas eve and Christmas day in their primary home.

There's no one size fits all. As the ranter poster said upthread - children are not possessions. They are not there to be divided up 'fairly' between the parents. Consider each case on its own circumstances.

I would let him have them from lunchtime Xmas day maybe meet for an Xmas drink at a pub half way and a festive amicable handover.

It is frustrating beyond all words when the ex have their own priorities and looking after the kids isn't one of them. However at the end of the day it is what's in the best interests of the children which is important. Children should know where they are safe and secure but also that there is no expectation that they see that iyswim, there's nothing worse than children feeling guilty because of a parent's expectations - iyswim.

Me and my ex split Christmas last year (we had split up the year before but were still in the same house pending me moving out) so I had ds Christmas eve and the majority of Christmas day, and then he went to his dad's at around teatime and spent boxing day there as well, and they waited until he got there to open any presents (ILs were also there). We haven't discussed this year yet and I don't imagine we will any time soon but we are generally fairly flexible and ds benefits from this.

Oh my goodness Christmasfairness do we share the same ex-h? .

YANBU. In an ideal world your ex would be as involved in your children's lives as you are, but sadly that's clearly not the case. Children are not processions I agree, so why do some parents feel they can pick them up and put them down when it suits them?

Being the parent that does it all bloody hard work! For me that alone means you deserve to spend the most exciting day of the year with them. If your children are like my dd you will have an especially close bond, because essentially you are their everything and their dad is more of an uncle figure.

Your children and only young and in a few years will be fully able to make their own decisions regarding where they go. Good luck!

I was going to say he's got 6 months to turn the situation round but I've just read the fact he doesn't take them on holiday and the 'unpaid NYE babysitter' comment, my answer would be something akin to over my rotting putrid corpse in not so many words.

OP you and most of the posters don't get it .It's not about whether he deserves to have them for christmas or not.
If he took this to court he would win

He doesn't sound like a man who cares enough to take this to court really does he?

Surely any judge with half a brain would be able to see what he's up to. 1 weekend a month and a couple of hours a week contact is piddlyshit. He's a disney dad - there for the fun stuff but leaves the child raising to their other parent. There's a motive behind this, he wouldn't have suddenly realised just how much he's missing.

Yeah, don't make the DC's choose. If you ask them they'll say they want to spend it with you to avoid hurting your feelings, regardless of how they really feel.

You should just tell him he's not your unpaid babysitter remember? You wouldn't want to burden him with having to babysit the DC's on his Christmas of all days.

If they've spent the last few Christmases at your place, let them have one at dad's to see how they like it.

I doubt he'd win at court (esp if OP has the 'unpaid babysitter' comment saved on email or text). What he'd 'win' is more contact time with his children, but that doesn't seem to be what he wants, as OP has offered this.

I don't understand why people are saying you should send them for Xmas on the basis that this is what's best for the kids. What's best for the children is a father who wants them around every other weekend + time during the week, who drops them off and picks them up from school on a regular basis, who helps out with homework and doctors appointments, who takes them on family holidays because he wants to spend time with them, who thinks NYE in the house with your DC is just what parents do (at least every other year). He is not that father, which is a crying shame for his DC. So why is going to his house best for the DC? There is not a shred of evidence for that.

Don't send them for Xmas. Possibly offer to send them in the evening after you have had festivities at your place.

Great post cutefluffybunnes

I'm lucky I suppose, ds dad is abroad. And Muslim. Not much chance of him ever demanding christmas access. :)

But... he is well aware that as he's always left everything to me, even boasts about never having changed a nappy in his life (and he has TWO dc he doesn't see), that in my son's life, the only one who has a say in what's what is me.

Yanbu but I'd talk to your ex and see if there is a compromise to be made like picking the kids up after Xmas dinner so he can have them the night before Xmas 2 and see them excited.

If he took this to court he would win

Sunshinecity17 he really, really wouldn't. Not even close.

(Anyway, as another MNer has pointed out, I don't think he'd be able to rouse himself enough to make the effort to try.)

'he wasn't going to be my unpaid babysitter'

what a fucking tosser.

Sorry don't have time to reply properly this morning to all the comments but thanks again. No way would he ever go to court, I've requested mediation many times and he refuses even that - I guess because he's worried what he may end up having to do.

I'm still undecided, need to make a decision I guess. I'm erring on the side of some sort of compromise but I actually think he will say no. I think he wants to take them to his parents which is about an hours drive and he will be drinking from an early hour on Christmas day (and also drinking a lot Christmas eve I expect). I don't entirely like the idea of them going there as they all get bladdered - I'm not being precious, I like a few drinks on Christmas day as much as the next person but they end up hammered and arguing every single time, and smoking in the house with the children which I don't like either - however appreciate they're not my decisions to make when they are in his care.

I'm trying not to slate him too much but yes he really is a total idiot. He's said much much worse than the babysitter comment and I've got them all saved just in case I ever need any of them.

Is there a risk that if you do ask an 8yo and a 6yo what they'd like to do, that they might say one thing and change their mind later? I know my 6 yo blows with the wind as to whether she's feeling like a mummy or a daddy's girl.

Also what if they both want different things- how would you decide which one to persuade. I think the decision needs to be worked out by the adults.

I think the suggestion of wake up in one house and move to another is a good one.

Or could you suggest that whomever gets Christmas gets them NYE too?

Just say no. If he can't be arsed to more involved why should he get to choose?

He sounds like a prick - don't do him any favours. Like I said up thread, my dd never went to her dad's Christmas Eve . She is 18 now and never once asked or regretted it.

Tbh he does sound quite involved in their life's even if to you it feels like he isn't. Maybe a compromise over Christmas Day could be worth asking about?

I used to see my dad for Sunday pm every week as that's all the access my mum would allow. We were never allowed to go on holiday with him or spend Christmas Day with him until one day we moved to a smaller house and it suited my mum for us to go then. It was horrible growing up being treated like a possession to be held onto especially as I loved the times I spent with my dad. I don't blame my mum as she had been left with 2 small kids after my dad had an affair but I do wish she'd managed to put her hurt aside just a bit and allowed us to have more of a relationship with our dad growing up.

Just to put it from the point of view of a child growing up in a similar situation.