to say my ex-h can't have the children for Christmas?

[christmasfairness]

Have NC for this as giving details he and the OW would recognise.

Have been apart from DC father for 4 years now and in that time they have stayed with me for Christmas eve and Christmas day, usually going to ex-H for Boxing day for a day or 2. They are currently 8 and 6.

Ex-H has them one weekend a month, Fri eve to Sun eve. He also has them for 2 hours each week for tea one night. That's it. He has never had them for any of their school holidays, he has never dropped them to or collected them from school. He plays no part in their day to day lives, does none of the 'work' involved in parenting. This is all his choice, he never asks for additional time with them. The day or 2 he usually has them at Christmas has in the past been instead of his usual monthly weekend.

He has asked me if he can have them for Christmas Eve and Day this year. I haven't yet replied and am in two minds. Although we have zero goodwill or relationship, I do try not to antagonise the situation further. Due to the minimal time he sees the children we have very little contact which suits me perfectly.

What I really think is that he can get lost, I do all the work, all year round so I should get the most exciting day of the year with them. He does nothing so why should he? If we had a proper shared parenting relationship then fair enough, take it in turns but we don't.

I could ask them what they want to do, I am pretty sure they would say they want to stay at home but I don't want to put them in a position where they need to choose.

What says MN? AIBU in saying no?

[starlight1234]

YANBU...

Kids do have a right to a relationship with both parents however at why does the relationship need to be built up on Xmas day.

I am all for sharing Xmas when both parents make an effort but to my mind this is not what is happening here.

I really don't understand the belief that the NRP can just ask and the RP has to say yes so child can have a relationship.

I love Bruno's email

[AllDirections]

Another insightful post there by cute

I live in hope Mutton though my 7 year old absolutely doesn't consider my feelings either so I'm not sure it's a teen thing!

[cutefluffybunnes]

I'm sure whatever you decide will be just fine, OP. Just don't send them over in a misguided attempt to be 'fair' or to do right by your DC. Your DC will be happy as pigs in mud on Xmas day in your home. And the fact that he has a somewhat uninvolved relationship with them is entirely down to him, and nothing to do with your decision over Xmas.

Personally, I think you are giving this chancer of a request too much headspace. You should just say 'no' and carry on as before. Hopefully in the future he will want to be more involved in his DC's lives, and as this is what you would like, too, everyone will be happy.

But you can't make him a better Dad or create a closer relationship by handing them over for Xmas.

[lunar1]

He doesn't sound like much of a parent! I would agree with alternating if he was but not in this situation. I would probably ask him if he wanted to pick them up after lunch on Christmas Day. If it was so important to him he won't mind not having a drink.

[MuttonCadet]

Sorry, didn't realise they were teens, in that case no they won't be taking your feelings into account (luckily the phase passes).

[Inertia]

You know, you can just say no. He has no reservations about saying no to you without ever considering the best interests of the children.

It's in their best interests to see him on a regular basis - he's not interested.

It's in the children's interest to spend part of the school holidays with their father , and perhaps even travel with him on holiday - he doesn't want to waste his holiday time on them.

He doesn't consider their needs when he is with them. Why on earth would it be best for the children to spend Christmas with a man who barely bothers with them ?

[RumAppleGinger]

Usually I would say that you are being unreasonable however having read his comment about new years eve I would tell the prick you don't require a childminder for Christmas this year. thanks though.

[AllDirections]

No, my older two DDs are teens and they don't appear to be in any way concerned about my feelings They also know that I'm happy for them to come and go between us as they please, which they do. And I quite fancy the idea of a Christmas day without kids. I'm sure I'd miss them but the thought of being able to chill out for the day without any squabbling or demands to deal with is very appealing.

[TheEnchantedForest]

Bruno's response early on is perfect. have you considered sending that email?

[MuttonCadet]

And you're sure you aren't projecting at all? I'm not trying to upset you, but you need to consider that they might just be trying to keep you happy?

[AllDirections]

So no-one takes their kids to grandparents for Christmas? They have to wake in their own beds?

I said earlier that my DC want to wake up at home. What I should have said was that they want to be with me wherever I am. That's where Christmas is for them.

[Sallystyle]

Normally I would say you are being unreasonable.

He doesn't pull his weight? doesn't help? then no; he shouldn't get to have the children on Xmas day. My ex used to get most of the fun part of parenting which could be annoying but he also had them every weekend and took them on holiday twice a year so I was more than happy to alternate Christmases.

In your case, no way.

[MuttonCadet]

So no-one takes their kids to grandparents for Christmas? They have to wake in their own beds?

Are you ready if your ex does say he wants to see the kids more, would 50:50 care suit you? Would that be okay?

Sorry but I think YABU.

[SelfconfessedSpoonyFucker]

Both parents, not kids

[SelfconfessedSpoonyFucker]

I think it would be very fair to say that you think one parent should have them all day Christmas Eve and early the next morning and the other parent can have them the rest of Christmas and Boxing Day. That way the kids get to see both kids on Christmas. That is the right thing for the kids even if they'd prefer to stay home and ex is a dickwad.

[eddielizzard]

if your dc would prefer to be at home, then do that. put them first. if that's what they would like, that's what they should have. it's their christmas too don't forget.

i would try not to let all this other shit cloud the situation. i know you're trying to do the right thing, but in my opinion, the right thing in this case is to go with what your dc want.

[mamas12]

If you really think that staying at home would be in their best interest tell him that,phrasing it as in the dcs best interest and then do the hardest bit and don't answer him back when he starts
He can go on and on but you don't have to listen or read what he says
Gird those loins and di what's best fir the Dcs good luck

[hellsbellsmelons]

They have a sibling who they won't spend Christmas with?
They will probably want to be there to see DC face on Christmas morning.
I can totally see where you are coming from.
It's so hard.
When it came to my DD I asked her as she was older anyway and an only child.
She went to be with him and has never wanted to again since!
That could happen which means you sacrifice 1 Christmas to get the rest of them.

[LadySybilLikesCake]

If he's seeing them on Boxing Day/the day after then he is spending time with them over Christmas.

" I honestly do want to do what's right for them, and I really do think they'd prefer to be at home, but if I say no he will be even more unbearable than currently." Any shitty behaviour from him shouldn't influence this. The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them, because if you give them what they want they will always want something else. Do what's right for your children first, don't do this because you're worried about what he'll do.

[christmasfairness]

I don't think I could hack a Christmas spent with him! There is no way in a million years would he say yes anyway so it's a bit pointless to offer that.

I have never stopped him seeing them, I spent 2 years trying to force him to be more involved, and it's only really the last year I have accepted that I can't and shouldn't and made peace with it in my own mind. It helps that they're a little bigger now, and hence a little easier and I'm cool with them not going to him, I no longer even ask about extra time or holidays as I realised long ago there was no point.

I'd happily do the warm welcome but trust me, he wouldn't tolerate that either. He looks horrified if I even try and speak to him when he collects them.

If they do go, I'll be fine I know, I have a new partner and another DC with him. We'd either go to my or his parents probably and we'd be fine. Our DC is too young to be fussed that his elder siblings weren't there, but I'm sure they would miss their younger sib if they went.

This is very hard. I am literally torn between just saying no, agreeing, or offering a compromise. I make my mind up and then change it 2 minutes later. I honestly do want to do what's right for them, and I really do think they'd prefer to be at home, but if I say no he will be even more unbearable than currently.

[hiccupgirl]

Pinealike I know what you mean but was trying to give how it felt like for me. And I know my dad fought to have joint custody and regular access because my mum constantly reminded us how awful it was that he'd done this and basically he should have just disappeared off the face of the Earth in her preference.

Obviously every situation is different and this exDH may well be a total waste of space who does nothing but I'm sure that's not how his kids see him.

[Pinealike]

I do the "warm welcome" thing on xmas day. It's a bit irritating, as otherwise I'd stay in pjs all day, as would DS (that's our idea of a wonderful holiday!), but eh, it's livable.

[LadySybilLikesCake]

I get slagged off (a lot) for not allowing Ds to fly over and spend a week with his father. Problem is, I've never said he couldn't. All I've asked is for regular contact in one way or another so Ds has the chance to get to know him first. It's never happened. One letter in 10 years, phone calls I could count on one hand and a few emails. He used to see Ds for an hour when he flew over every 18 months - 3 years in between getting pissed with his mates and seeing his family. He's taken Ds to the cinema before and has fallen asleep. What do you do when their father is this shit? Contact isn't for a child's benefit, it's to ease the absent parent's conscience. It was an hour of nothing for Ds as the relationship died years ago. Ds is 15 and doesn't see him now.

I said yesterday that he's only doing this to show off to his new partner and he won't bother after this year, so it will give mixed messages to your children. I still think this. I'd say no but I would offer them a 'warm' welcome to my house as a compromise, but I'm a mug.

[Ioethe]

Are you able to peacefully coexist in the same room as him? If so, invite him over from Xmas day. I pretty much guarentee he won't come, and you get the moral high ground of having offered him Xmas with his kids.

Just make sure that you can just about stomach it on the offchance that he says yes!

[AllDirections]

I talked to my DC when they were younger about what they wanted from Christmas Day. They wanted to wake up at home and open their presents and then have some time to play with them. So with that in my mind I told my XH that he could pick them up anytime from 2pm. He never did! They always went Boxing Day instead. They're teens now and can go to their Dad's for Christmas if they want to but they don't. He probably wouldn't want them anyway