To expect him to pay?

[AtSea1979]

This is going to sound terrible I know but for some reason I feel it.
Went on first date with a guy last week, paid £20 babysitter, and met him for drinks, we both bought a round.
He told me he had a lovely time and would I like to go out for dinner next week, I said yes.
Tonight, I paid babysitter another £20, and went out for meal, when bill came I got my purse out to pay (total £55) my half but then he put £30 down and I was surprised he didn't tell me to put my purse away. Even though I would have said no and paid half I still feel like he should have paid the full.
I know they are my kids and my responsibility but I still wonder whether I want to date someone again who is so tight.
AIB completely U? (and date I say, sexist?) Or would others feel similar?

He might not have much money but still wants to meet you.

2) insist on paying and worse, risk being seen as a feminist (we all know how popular they are!) There is nothing wrong with feminists. However, this is the type of thing that gives feminists a bad name

I think the feminists are the ones calling bullshit. I don't know any woman who would call herself a feminist yet expect men to pay for her dinner on a first date and think him tight if he didn't. That attitude is the antithesis of feminism.

Expectation of paid for meal isn't feminist,its being a chancer,and graspy
Ideologically a feminist would baulk at expectation man pay

He might not have much money but still wants to meet you.

I expect to pay on a first date and if course I am a feminist as I believe in equality

And op I think yabu

WRT the feminist comment, what I meant is, it is some women's expectation that we should be equal only when it suits us that gives it the bad name.

If you want true equality, you want it everywhere & don't get to cherrypick

that is just wanting it your own way nothing to do with feminism

But let's blame feminism it's easier in other words let's blame women again

I don't think anyone means to blame feminism. I think some of us are expressing disgust at women who presumably want equality and respect in their daily lives but are prepared to be grabby and freeloading in order to ensure a man coughs up for their dinner. That's simply hypocritical.

Yes it's hypocritical. And it's not feminism. So let's not conflate the two ok?

Oh for heaven's sake, I am not bloody blaming feminism!!!

I am blaming those who allude to being feminist when it suits them, wanting all the things that feminists in the past have fought for & stood up for, yet when they met a man suddenly their feminist principals go out the window, because they expect the man to pay for them.

I know I am not explaining my self very well, in my defence I am trying to settle a very upset child, but I am not saying this attitude is the fault of feminists/feminism.

But part of the reason feminists get a bad press is that SOME women want it all, until they want a man to pay for it.

And nobody is conflating the two. Well not me anyway.

There are plenty of woman on this thread who think of themselves as feminists. Some of those are women who wouldn't be happy if the man didn't pay. Therefore, they are giving the feminist movement a bad name by cherry picking their ideas of feminism to suit their own gain!

But part of the reason feminists get a bad press is that SOME women want equality, until they want a man to pay for dinner

Ok, but I don't think I read many comments on this thread along the lines of 'I'm a feminist, but I still think I am owed a free dinner by virtue of being female' nor am I convinced that more than a handful of women would identify as feminist whilst holding these views. So I'm not sure how views expressed on this thread give feminism a bad name since nothing has indicated that they are held by feminists. Opportunists, yes, possibly hypocrites, but not feminists.

adifferentnameforthis I think you've been clear, and I agree with you.

differentnameforthis Sorry.

ilovesooty Thank you!

Bill Arrives:

HIM: I'll get that.
HER: Oh, thank you. I'll get the next one/the movies/icecream/drinks
HIM: Sounds good.

There. Look how easy that was. Graciously accept his offer to pay, offer to pay for the next activity. It's not like a date just ends at dinner. You're not freeloading, and he's still being nice.

Or

HIM: Do you want to split?
HER: Sounds good.

If either gender is getting upset or expecting something from the other, sex or otherwise, it's a good reason to drop them like a rock. If a guy thinks you owe him sex because you let him pay, that's on him and a good reason to never see him again. Just like if a girl expects a guy to pay, that's a good reason to ditch her.

But let's not start attaching insult and reading too deeply into a meal tab with "Oh, now he thinks he owns me/thinks he can buy me" if he does offer. Or "Oh she's so grabby/just threw feminism out the window" if she accepts.

I regard myself as a feminist. I also expected dates to pay for my dinner. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, and can see the contradiction myself. It's just what I think and I am comfortable with it, even if others are not.

What I'm a bit perturbed at is the idea, expressed by a number of posters, that because of my actions, men cannot be blamed for prejudice against the actions of all women.

We don't judge all men by what we consider to be the poor behaviour of some of them, do we? Or certainly, I don't.

What I'm a bit perturbed at is the idea, expressed by a number of posters, that because of my actions, men cannot be blamed for prejudice against the actions of all women.

Which is funny because feminists also believe that men can indeed help how they think and feel. It's anti-feminist and sexist to also have the attitude that men can't help how they feel.

I'm more worried about the attitude that if a woman lets a man pay he might expect something. That's not on the woman if he's a creep. Sorry, it's just not, it is 100% on him and letting him pay doesn't suddenly mean that attitude is now justifiable. Let's not even encourage that attitude or use it as an arguing point.

If they make a sweeping generalization about women because of a few bad experiences, that's on them and only them. Just like if a woman makes a sweeping generalization of men, it's on them.

Which is funny because feminists also believe that men can indeed help how they think and feel

Some women think that and some of them may describe themselves as feminists while others say: 'I'm not a feminist but...'

I'm not sure I agree with you there but I agree with the jist of your post that if you make sweeping generalisations about groups of people it probably says more about you than them.

I would describe myself as a feminist. I had a bemusing experience when someone on here once angrily described me as a rad-fem. I don't regard that as an insult, but neither do I think I'd cut it with true rad-fems.

I've also been called a TERF. I had to look it up and yes, I fitted the bill. Again, it was intended as an insult. I chose not to take it as such but rather more an accurate assessment of my views and my right to hold them.

Graciously offering to pay for the next activity, ie the cinema, is fine if there is one. You can't necessarily say you'll pay for the next meal, assuming there is going to be a next date.

Sloping off to the toilet and avoiding the bill is another matter entirely and that's been openly admitted to on this thread.

Just going to powder your nose is a euphemism for hiding your purse in some parts.

Sloping off to the toilet and avoiding the bill is another matter entirely and that's been openly admitted to on this thread

I noticed that but haven't commented one way or another. If you want to present that poster's action as that, which I think is a misinterpretation, then I would say that I think that would be wrong. And it would be wrong for a man to do it too, and some of them do.

I said what my view is on the subject of dates paying for my dinner.

If you or anyone else wants to call my feminist credentials to account I'm prepared for the debate. I imagine that there are views you hold that I would take issue with but I'd probably stop short of accusing you of being anti-feminist or betraying women.

I haven't actually described myself as a feminist but it seems inconsistent to me to describe yourself as one yet expect men to pay for your meal. Just my perception.