to not want my 3yo to go to a petting farm without me

[pianointhedark]

DD is 3.2. Her preschool are doing a trip to a petting farm, which I feel reluctant to let her go on.

My main concern is hygiene. With the best will in the world the staff cannot be watching all the children all the time, and obviously it would only take a moment for her hand to go into her mouth before it had been washed. Obviously I could impress upon her not to do that, but she's only 3 and I can't expect her to understand why or remember.

I did ask whether they needed any parent helpers, but the answer was no. I then told a little white lie - that DD can be wary of animals and for that reason I would prefer to be with her, but again the answer was no - apparently they can't allow one parent to go because then all will want to go and they're sure DD will be fine.

AIBU to not want her to go? Sometimes I worry that I am being overly PFB and would appreciate some MN perspective.

Barbeques cause far, far more cases of HUS then petting farms do.

Thinking about 'smoking is harmful and it's not banned' re Petting Farms not being banned made me imagine some uberpowerful Petting Zoo Lobby, whacking millions into advertising and government and cackling into their straw at night.

As you were.

Unless you tie her hands together she could quite easily stick her fingers in her mouth if you are standing next to her the whole time, it only takes half a second. I think you need to get over it and let her enjoy her time.

As someone said further up the thread, every risk we take involves some kind of cost-benefit analysis. We weigh up the worst case scenario, the steps we'd have to take to avoid that, and what we'd be losing out on if we did.

Avoiding ever playing normally in a back garden is a huge loss to a child, missing one trip to a petting farm is not, and might well be worth doing if the risk avoided has a serious enough consequence (even if it doesn't have high likelihood).

E. coli caught indirectly from rabbits visiting a back garden is something I'd see as one of those things you just can't prevent because the disruption to normal life needed to reduce the risk significantly is just too huge. It's much more comparable to the car risk, or the risk of being struck by lightning - you don't never go out in the rain because of the theoretical risk of that, because it would keep you indoors too much.

But E. coli caught from animals in a petting zoo a very young child is visiting directly, in a group situation with less than 1:1 supervision? That really is a risk that's completely preventable without huge disruption to normal life, because it's just missing one trip, or postponing that type of trip till they're older.

I'd love to see any nursery worker stop my thumb sucking obsessed dd from putting her hands in her mouth at the farm. I've tried and failed and have now given up. She is quite healthy and is often playing outside in the mud. Her thumb is often the cleanest bit of her hands. While I hate the whole 'it never did us any harm' argument, it is kind of true here. Healthy humans need some exposure to germs to develop a healthy immune system.

We were very ill a couple of years ago with cryptosporidium probably picked up from pond dipping at a petting farm (Pennywell in Devon). I'm now exceedingly wary and antibac to high heaven in such places. The kids will probably be fine but I'd want to know they'd risk assessed the activities.

I honestly think you are being a teensy bit anxious about this , but then i have a variety of animals , cloven hoofed and otherwise that DS has licked and touched without the use of hand sanitiser since he was able to , i am also lax at the wash hands before eating malarky , and he has had one episode of D&V in 4 and half years and he is a boy and spends an inordinate amount of time checking his willy hasn't spontaneously dropped off
Is it possible to visit the farm before the trip to check out the facilities and put your mind at rest a bit and also coach your DD on hand hygeine ?

I don't however think that you are mad or bad to think like this , as parents i think a lot of us are gripped by unreasonable anxiety at various times during our childrens lives , i have one which creeps up on me at times where i worry about one of the many gentle eccentrics living in my local rural area , going completely bonkers with a gun at my childrens school , chances of this happening are slim to zero , so i still drop them off everyday ( including that one teacher training day , oops ) , but you cannot let anxiety rule yours or your childrens lives , if they are to have any worth living .

fourarms, they will have risk assessed the activities.

No setting would take children on a trip without doing one, otherwise they risk being closed down by Ofsted.

Do you realise that your child has a higher risk of contracting toxoplasmosis from a not properly washed apple at pre-school?

After the outbreak of E. Coli among the children after the petting zoo in Surrey, I'm sure an expert or other was on the TV saying young children under 5 shouldn't be at petting zoos because of this risk. It has always stuck with be as I have a ds aged 2. Maybe something like this has stuck in op mind? I understand your concern but I think I would allow mine to go in your position and hope he was ok.

Aside from the whole risk of a petting zoo (yes there is a risk but its managed and its small or they wouldn't be allowed to do it), I really don't get this post:

To do a risk assessment piano you assess danger (on a scale of very small to very high ie death) against likelihood (from very small to very high). So that isn't a decent risk assessment.

The whole meaning of risk is to look at how bad would it be if it happened on a scale of, say, 1 (not very) to 5 (very bad eg death) and then look to see how likely again on a scale of 1 (not very, so rare) to 5 (very likely).

Why is that not a decent risk assessment? That is exactly what risk is about - looking at how bad something is - so yes, E coli can be very bad - and then looking at how likely it is to happen. A risk assessment should take account of mitigation here - so all the measures taken by the petting zoo to minimise the risk through hygiene etc plus the staff making sure children wash their hands. These measures reduce the likelihood that it will happen and so reduce the risk.

No the risk cannot be eliminated, but there is a risk attached to most things. If the OP can't cope with the risk of a petting zoo then fine, don't send her daughter. Personally, I think its a shame - the risk should be well managed - but I don't see why missing out on one preschool trip will scar her daughter forever.

Missing out on nature and risk altogether is another matter though.

Antibacterial gel does fuck all against ecoli. The farmer told us that when we were at the farm last week. DD licked a llama. It wasn't intentional but she seems fine.

candy the OP isn't worried about bugs like toxo. She is worried about ecoli, which is a different bag altogether.

Healthy humans need some exposure to germs to develop a healthy immune system. I don't disagree. However there's a slight difference between exposure to the odd bug that might give you a cold or an upset tummy and e-coli O.157 developing into full blown HUS!! That's like saying that it's a good idea to get exposure to Ebola or rabies to build up your immune system

Follow your gut instinct OP, I personally think you are making the right decision and that's coming from a farmer.

I'm the first one to go on MN threads and encourage parents of PFBs to let them go with their schools on excursions/away trips etc. I think it is great that they can explore without parents helicoptering over them all the time.

However on this occasion I will mention that we took our DD to a well known Country estate/petting farm when she was about one (10 years ago) and she caught cryptosporidium - probably from the sheep/goats - and we were very vigilant (2 parents to one child). It was extremely nasty and she could only drink water with powdered electolytes (could not keep food down) for what seemed like ages at the time (probably a fortnight).

Fourarms You're not going to believe this - the farm in question is Pennywell.

That really has made my mind up now.

ohhdaddypig but why? I don't get the fixation on this one bug.

Because E coli has been in the press and yes it can be nasty. Just very very unlikely.

shaska was very impressed by the maths (my maths is crap) and agree with the microwave thing. We do have one but still feel the urge to leave the room when I switch it on. Totally irrational I know (my dad has a thing about them based on the early ones that may not have been as good as they are now).

candy ecoli in under 5s (in fact anyone) is extremely serious. Often fatal, nackers kidneys.

Cryptosporidium isn't great either but it's ecoli that is very very serious. And it's carried in animal poo.

Candycoatedwaterdrops - it proves fatal in many cases, leaves people requiring dialysis/transplant, can cause high blood pressure, bleeding to death as blood doesn't clot, liquefies your internal organs...not to mention horrendous diarrhoea, often pure blood, non stop vomiting for days on end. And there is no cure. Want your small child to catch it?