to not want my 3yo to go to a petting farm without me

[pianointhedark]

DD is 3.2. Her preschool are doing a trip to a petting farm, which I feel reluctant to let her go on.

My main concern is hygiene. With the best will in the world the staff cannot be watching all the children all the time, and obviously it would only take a moment for her hand to go into her mouth before it had been washed. Obviously I could impress upon her not to do that, but she's only 3 and I can't expect her to understand why or remember.

I did ask whether they needed any parent helpers, but the answer was no. I then told a little white lie - that DD can be wary of animals and for that reason I would prefer to be with her, but again the answer was no - apparently they can't allow one parent to go because then all will want to go and they're sure DD will be fine.

AIBU to not want her to go? Sometimes I worry that I am being overly PFB and would appreciate some MN perspective.

Yanbu

I never let my dcs go on the pre school farm trip for the same reason.

I think you are being pfb OP BUT that doesn't invalidate your feelings. What I would say is do not project your anxiety over this onto your DD. I write risk assessments and we have to jump through hoops, twirl three times, get out of a straight jacket and dive into a shot glass before we can do anything, ANYTHING with children. The nursery will have had a member of staff visit the animal farm first and made an absolutely tailored risk assessment dealing perfectly adequately with hygeine and safety.

As to parent helpers, the reason we do not take parent helpers is because our LA is so stringent on child protection and all have to be DBS checked. So what would have happened in our LA, if a parent like whatever had "tagged along" and happened to have been holding the hand/talking to another child and we were spot checked we would be in a real mess.

I'm afraid I would have told you in no uncertain terms whatever to remove your child from the group and take him/her around at your own volition compeltely away from our group.

I am not trying to be facetious but you do need to weigh up whether you feel a school setting is right for you and her. If you feel you cannot trust those in loco parentis and that feeling outweighs any benefits you feel she may be getting, then you need to look at other options such as home schooling or a tutor.

So just because I don't want to send my just turned 3yo to a petting farm without me, I should be considering home schooling?!

I'm sorry, but that really is one of the most ridiculous things somebody has ever said to me.

She doesn't start school for over a year and there is a huge difference between a 3yo and a 4.5yo in terms of what responsibility they can take for their own wellbeing / hygiene. And if I can't trust those in loco parentis, then why am I currently sending her to preschool?

Also a big assumption on your part that even if somebody wanted to homeschool, that they could. Most families can't afford to have one parent permanently at home.

Honestly, only on MN.

I don't think you are being unreasonable. I think it just depends on how you view this particular risk.

There have been outbreaks of ecoli from petting farms - is this what you are worried about?

I have let mine go on nursery trips to farms on the basis I trust the nursery and ecoli is very rare.

I think it is a risk but there are bigger risks that I worry about.

You might find if you speak to the nursery you feel better?

People often only realise a home school setting would be better for them and their children after having tried the preschool and school option first. I don't see why its so ridiculous, many see it as quite rewarding. Of course it can only be an avenue travelled down if it is something you have both the time and resources to commit to. Others on the face of it don't have the resources but decide to make sacrifices in other areas in order to facilitate their choice.
Some people think having a house in the right area is the most important thing, others have different priorities that is all.

Tbh you get hygiene issues everywhere. A petting farm's no different to your garden or park!

YABU.
I knew before I finished reading your post that your DD is a PFB.
Relax a bit and trust those you have entrusted your child to. I'm sure she doesn't always have spotlessly clean hands.

I don't see why its so ridiculous, many see it as quite rewarding.

I'm sure they do, and I didn't say that homeschooling is ridiculous. I said that suggesting homeschooling BECAUSE somebody doesn't want their 3yo going to a petting farm is ridiculous.

As for resources, do you know what the average wage is in this country? It's not simply a case of sacrificing a house in the right area for most people, it's about keeping a roof over your head full stop. When 2 low / average earners are just keeping afloat, homeschooling is not an automatic option because there is nothing to sacrifice.

Chocolate - last time I checked, there were no animals harbouring e coli in our back garden. Of course it's different.

I haven't read the whole thread, just skimmed.

While the risk of catching something is there, it is small.

I went on a trip.to a small farm with petting area.with nursery children last year (the nursery/preschool is attached to my dcs school and I was asked to go as I've been crb checked for other school trips).
We had a ratio of 1:2, a couple of teachers had 3 children. Honestly, we watched them like hawks. Everytime they got within a mile of an animal they were anti bacced. Everytime we passed sinks, they washed their hands, and were anti bacced. Everytime a hand went near a mouth we noticed.

Tbh you get hygiene issues everywhere. A petting farm's no different to your garden or park!
Utter nonsense. There generally aren't fatal bugs knocking round every garden or park

OP, I don't want you to feel like I'm trying to tell you you're mad, but from your posts I get the sense that maybe you've conflated 'hand in mouth' with 'E.Coli'. You're seeing the risk being the behaviour that is likelier, rather than the risk itself, that is less likely, if that makes sense? It's really common - we all do it, and about positive things too.

Basically, you seem more worried that she will put her hand in her mouth, than worried that the hand might have E.Coli on it, if that makes sense? But actually - even if she DOES put her hand in her mouth, it's only a tiny chance that it will have E.Coli on it to begin with. But you can focus on the hand, rather than the invisible and undetectable bug.

So for you, of course it seems worrying! Because kids DO put their hands in their mouths, and you're right - even with 1:1 it's impossible to be certain they won't.

Again, I think you should do what you feel is right, and it's not a big deal, but I would encourage you to consider that statistically, the risk of your DD putting her hand in her mouth with dirty hands is not too massive (as you said, it's a good childcare centre with good staff who will no doubt do their best) and the risk of said hand having E.Coli on it is very very small.

My stats are not the best but I did some numbers and they could be wrong but I THINK, I did a sum where if your daughter normally has her hands in her mouth 10% of the time (ie a solid 2.4 hours a day) and your petting zoo trip is 3 hours, 1.5 of which are spent with dirty hands, then I THINK the risk of hand going in mouth (leaving aside the idea that a supervisor might stop her) and said hand having E.Coli was about 0.000024, which is, to put it in context about 10x less likely than a single dealt poker hand containing four of a kind.

Yes, it happens. And my sympathies are with anyone it happens to, the same way they are with anyone whose kid comes to harm in tragically unlikely circumstances. But it is very, very, very unlikely, and most people will not see it as risky enough to warrant taking action over - I guess for the same reason most people let their kids ride bikes, or go to amusement parks, or ride in cars. Because for them the risk/reward is worth it.

But if this is your 'one thing' then I think fair enough, everyone's got a 'thing' (I refuse to own a microwave. I know, I know I'm mad. Evil rays! Evil rays!) and your daughter will grow up and then if she wants to she can pat all the sheep she wants. It is not a big deal. BUT - it is a tiny, tiny risk, and I just hope that this IS your 'one thing' and you're not worrying yourself to distraction about all the other tiny risks. Because I do think that's not great - for you or the kid!

My dsis went to farms with her 1.5 and 3 year old - how do you think parents of more than one dc ever go out ? I thought the ratio of dc to staff at 3 was 2:1?

Can I just point out the blindingly obvious as it seems to have passed some people by?

If petting farms were the hotbeds of death and disease to the under-5s that some people are alleging, they'd be banned. But they're not.

Foxes go in gardens - and they have more diseases than farmed animals

YABU however, another thread where the OP asks AIBU? The general view is yes you are. OP stamps her foot, no I'm not!

Why bother to post, if you wanted research to back up your decision then use google and you'll fin it.

Complete waste of bloody time.

oddfod you have much more faith in our government than me! Lots of risky things aren't "banned". Cigarettes are still legal FFS.

Every few years there is an outbreak of ecoli from a petting farm and sadly it is very serious. So the petting farms put up lots of signs and anti-bac and the risk is minimised. Isn't that life? We all go in cars, walk down the street, eat out and make decisions every day that involve some risk.

I agree everyone has their "thing" they worry about. My own is that a lunatic driver loses control and ploughs into a group of kids on the pavement. Every nursery visit, I worry about this, (and not ecoli!) even though it is still a minuscule risk.

But it doesn't mean I don't let DCs go on these trips. Because that's a half-life.

They're not banned Odd, but they are festooned with basins, antibacterial gel and loads and loads of signs saying WASH YOUR HANDS NOW!!!

It's not considered enough of a risk to ban it altogether but there have been enough young children hospitalised to ensure that all concerned are really alert about risk reduction. You don't see signs like that anywhere else where children play.

And yes, what daddypig said.

Maddening, please enlighten me as to which fatal diseases are spread by foxes

If petting farms were the hotbeds of death and disease to the under-5s that some people are alleging, they'd be banned. But they're not.

In the past, many experts have stated that children under five shouldn't touch animals at petting farms though.

"AIBU? The general view is yes you are OP stamps her foot, no I'm not!"

If AIBU was meant to be a simple vote then it could be a poll not a discussion. The 'why' matters too! Not just that someone says YABU!

All the fact that the OP is still not convinced shows is that the people giving the 'general view' haven't been particularly convincing.

Far too many of these replies are of the 'a little bit of dirt never hurt anyone' type, or are totally confusing specific precautions around animals with what you need to do in more everyday situations, and that's not reassuring or convincing because frankly it shows dangerous ignorance of E. coli.

More reassuring and convincing would be replies that started off with agreement about how seriously dangerous E. coli O157 is (in a league of its own ahead of all the other everyday bugs kids get exposed to), and how important the hygiene precautions are, and which then went on to talk about how the trip is a good idea despite that.

There haven't been quite as many of those, and balancing them out there have been quite a few other people saying the OP is NBU.

It's not pigheaded if you don't go along with the majority view if the majority view hasn't convinced you it's got a sound basis. It's called not being a sheep!

can't get down to the bottom of the thread, but just wanted to say yanbu to be concerned about her health and safety, nor do ecoli salmonella or foot and mouth obey any regulations, but if you're not happy with the nursery's arrangements to take care of your child you'll just have to take the day off. we've done the same on occasion and to no lasting I'll effect.

Before someone jumps on me - I'm not saying everyone who thinks this trip is fine is a sheep. But the OP would be being a sheep if she went along with that opinion just because lots of people hold it and despite the fact that she's not convinced.