to really not understand why some working mothers

[Duckierub]

still pick up the lions share of the house work and childcare.

I have friends who work same/similar hours to their partners but seem to still pick up the lions share of the house work and childcare.

I wonder what message this sends out to the next generation?

AIBU to think that when the working day is over, whether you are a SAHM or work out the house and whatever the gender, the household duties should then be shared.

DH and I do about the same, I do more of the household admin stuff (like dealing with tradesmen) as my work is a lot closer & it's easier for me to pop home, but he does all the outside stuff - mowing, planting, etc. We also have a cleaner 2 hours a week to do bathrooms, floors, vacuuming as he was far more concerned about that stuff than I was and would end up nagging or moaning about. Definitely worth our while to pay for those chores to be done and not have the dirt building up or have chore time eating into weekends.

My dad did nothing, even when he wasn't working and was at home all day & mum was working full-time. I swore I would never tolerate it in a partner.

Oh yes, and we both worked FT. Am I allowed to call him a twunt? To the OP, no idea why I put up with it. But to the people saying, why do the men do it? Gender conditioning, which can, in some, be taken to twuntish levels.

expected sex in return for doing chores

Yes you can call him a twunt summerflower!

summerflower, exh sounds just charming!

I have a friend whose DH does all the housework, pretty much, because he is the houseproud one and she is the one who leaves all her clothes in a heap on the floor because she CBA to hang them up or put them in the laundry basket or whatever.

It might be a gender stereotype but there's no actual reason for men to be houseworkshy, except laziness and conditioning.

Im a bit like that Thumbwitch DH is constantly losing his rag over my coat draped on the back of the couch or my shoes kicked off in the hallway he should try wearing heels all day

That said I can't understand why he's incapable of making the bed to my standards. Horse for courses, at least we generally balance each other out.

Mine will go shopping with a list. What he will not do, is keep an eye on the fact that the bin bags are running out, or that we're at the bottom of the sauce bottle or whatever, and add this to the list. All the work of "remembering" falls to me. Is it possible to train a partner to think, not just to do? I'm not sure. This is so much less of an issue before dcs (as there's so much less work, and more free time) so I think it kind of creeps up on many couples - it's not like women were actively choosing a man who stated he didn't like housework.

I do the supermarket shopping but I always need to check with DH as to whether we need cat food, bin bags etc.

Am starting to feel a bit worried

My mum used to roll her eyes when people said to her about how lucky she was that her husband (my dad) was so good with the kids/ did shopping/ cooking etc. She says it was not luck - she a) married carefully, b) trained him up well.

DH and I share everything. His dad was not a good role model in that he does sweet fa about the house. But he is caring and considerate man. I don't think any caring and considerate person would ignore requests from their partner to help out more, regardless of gender conditioning. But the gender stuff must dictate the expectations of both people in the relationships outlined in the op.

Personally I couldn't be with someone who was a selfish twat.

I sometimes think I live in a different world to half of mumsnet. My DH and most of the others I know do a heck of a lot.

School drop off - excluding stay at home/part time working mums - close to 50/50
Pick up from after school club - 50/50.
Brownies pickups - 90% dads.
Party drop off/pick ups - mainly dads.

At the first hint of sun it's the men outside cutting the grass.

Obviously I don't know who's cleaning the loo but from a childcare point of view it seems very split to me.

In our house I work p/t and would still say DH does as much if not more than me.

I do the "organising" - things like sending back the forms for school trips, plan holidays etc cause he is rubbish at that. He does the DIY as I am rubbish at that..

The only bloke I know who does nothing was my friends ex - that's one of the big reasons he is now an ex..

Summerflowers
Yes, twunt! How awful.

Password protected
No, this is not aimed at working professionals.

Vivacia
"Brilliant. It's irresponsibility on the part of the woman that the man chooses not do his fair share"
No I stated very clearly SOME women do not enable men to help and gave a specific example of my mother complaining she does all the cooking then shooing her husband out as soon as even dares to step foot in the kitchen.

"All the work of "remembering" falls to me. Is it possible to train a partner to think, not just to do?"

Igggi - this is DH. He seems perfectly capable of thinking while he's working, but as soon as it comes to anything in the home, his brain just switches off! I don't pander to it but still he does it and is, in fact, getting worse. I think he thinks it's endearing - I have no idea why, I've told him repeatedly that it's pathetic and far from attractive.

It's interesting even the language on here referring to men being trained well by the woman implies the woman is in charge of the house.

It's these old phrases and attitudes along with other societal influences that need to change. Women need to stop saying stuff like this as it ingrains the idea that men are feckless and need 'training'.

I have to tell you that I had a lovely husband. We'd almost fight over what household task we were going to do. He wouldn't stop doing housework and cooking because he loved it so I gave it up.

Yes yes to what Igggi has said. Also remembering what night parents' evening is on, sports day, dentist's appointments for the kids etc etc.

I cant be bothered with training a man. I just made sure I picked a man that treated me like I deserved, and I have very high standards.

Duckierub we know you're right, but yes some of us do feel like 'we are in charge' - in my case it is because DH works away from home a lot and I do keep track of things more than him. And yes to change train him would be a fucking miracle.

I am tempted to simply stop doing stuff, but that would be called 'a nervous breakdown' and the 3 DC would suffer as would the status quo of the relationship between me and DH.

Yes, unfortunately though, we can't sort of stop history and rub out entire generations of men who were supposedly trained by their parents (or not) and start afresh.

I, for example, am determined that my sons will not be following in their father's ways - he won't be able to train them, as he doesn't have the skills himself - so it will be down to me to train them.

The next generation will, hopefully, be better than this one - but in the meantime we still have to live and deal with this generation, many of whom were brought up by enabling mothers and still need some level of "training", even though a huge number of MNers seem to think this is unnecessary and demeaning, because technically they're adults.

"I, for example, am determined that my sons will not be following in their father's ways - he won't be able to train them, as he doesn't have the skills himself - so it will be down to me to train them."

Can you be more specific about the skills he lacks?

Depends what the 'household chores' are.

I do the nursery run before and after work as DH works longer and further away.

I do pretty much all the inside chores (unless it involves a gadget, say, a steam mop) including the washing, dusting etc.

However, all outside jobs and household maintainance DH does, mowing, fixing etcs. And as we are doing up our house these are by no means little jobs.

In the holidays we split all jobs 50/50.

Theoneandonly

Sounds fair to me.

Yep. I'm better at one thing and he's better at others. We just do what we are best at. Having said that, he does clean and I do mow, then we have a right laugh at how rubbish it looks.

We both enjoy gardening though. I'd also like to add that DS aged 2.8 joins us with all chores. He loves dusting as much as pretending to mow.

I'm not sure how much is personality and how much is learnt behaviour tbh.

DH is far more house proud than I am but while he is great at making the house look tidy, he is not good at actually cleaning beyond the surface. Whereas I tend to let it get messy before I tackle it but when I do, everything is cleaned thoroughly. We balance each other out well most of the time. I do more nursery drop offs/pickups but mainly because I'm usually driving past there.

I was brought up to clean up after my dad and brother and consequently refuse to run around after other people. DH was brought up to not lift a finger and everything was done by his mum. He is the first person to clean up and tidy, not me.

Well, I could say the same thing about maintenance, repairs and decorating etc. so many women have nothing to do with manual labour or anything requiring much in the way of heavier work.

I am currently training my DH as I want to return to work. It's a standard joke amongst my friends that they only do the ironing because their partners are so bad at it. I'm ivercoming that little gem by now only doing my own ironing, my DD (year 7) is already doing hers.

Sorting laundry, as opposed to bunging it all in one wash together, regardless (yes I know there are a bunch of MNers who do this, I'm not one of them and I prefer my clothes to survive the laundry process)

How to change a vacuum cleaner bag - he had the miele whining with pain, it was so full, he didn't notice the red warning or understand that the bag isn't magically self-emptying

How to pull curtains - seems to bypass DH's brain completely

How to make a bed properly and change linens

How to hang laundry so it dries with minimal creasing and therefore no need for ironing

How to clean the bathroom - noticing when the loo is in need of bleach etc., how to find the bleach and cleaning agents etc.

that's just a few off the top of my head. :)

Teaching DSs how to look for their own things as opposed to doing it for them every time they fail to find it the first glance will be a big one - not sure I'll succeed with that but I'll have a damn good go!!
DS1 can already get his own laundry into the basket, knows how to empty the dishwasher, can put his own dirty crocks etc. into the wash, even knows which ones don't go in the dishwasher. He helps hang out the washing, so knows how to hang it on the airer (can't reach the line). He's 6.

DH can, and does, cook. He can, and does, wash up. He can just about get things back in the cupboards when forced to, and he does his own ironing. That's kind of it, in the house. We share DIY, he does the mowing, I make him do the ceiling light bulbs because we have 10' high ceilings and I'm not happy up ladders.