to be toying with the idea of having a baby alone with donated sperm?

[honeykitten]

Reasonably financially secure, no family whatsoever to help and no man on the horizon (mid 30s.)

I know I am a daft old woman

DaughterofADonor. Do you actually disapprove of a single woman having a baby using donor sperm? I understand you have concerns about it but do you actually think people shouldn't do it?

I don't like this constant referring to mothers of donor children "deliberately" denying their children the right to genetic knowledge, as if the known donors were queuing up but we turned them away.

I always wanted children, and when my fiancé dropped the bombshell that he didn't (having previously said he did) when I was 36, I was devastated. I knew my chances of meeting someone else "in time" were slim, due to hormone levels I'd had tested etc. I grieved the loss of the family I always thought I'd have, and I thought long and hard about my options. I read everything I could find on the subject of adoption and donor conception.

I feel I went into it with my eyes as open as it's possible for them to be. I would have been very happy to have a known donor, or a donor who waived his right to anonymity, but in those days they were all anonymous. I had no choice in the matter.

I worry constantly about how my DC will feel in the future, and I try to be as open and receptive to discussion as possible with DC1 (age 8). I admit to him that I know it's hard and that I'm sorry that he doesn't have a father - although so far the only time he says he wants one is when he sees his best friend getting more Lego than him, which he attributes to friend's father's well-paid job!

I think there are many ways that, as parents, we do things that may blight our children's lives. But we weigh up the pros and cons, and try to make sensible decisions. For example, a friend of mine has a son with fairly significant physical disabilities and learning difficulties. He will never be able to live independently, but despite knowing this they still had a second child. DC2 is now growing up and feels embarrassed of his brother at times, and faces having to look after him when their parents die. Is this wrong? Should they have done this, knowing that they were setting DC2 up for a life that may make him unhappy? Who knows? Should disabled adults have children, knowing that their DC will have to be their carers? Should people with genetic conditions have kids, knowing they'll pass their conditions on? We can't predict the future and how people will feel, but we do what we think is right.

In my dark moments (like after after reading the Anonymous Us link) I feel sad and worried about what I have done. But I really do try my hardest to do the right thing for my DC, and I am optimistic that they will be OK.

daughter, you raise valid points, and I think it is important that your voice is heard, of course.

Have you considered co parenting op?

Thank you Writerwannabe83 :)

It is often overlooked, or discounted, but many DC adults feel that it concerns something 'fundamental' as you put it - history, ancestry, replaced by a void. It is a very complex and emotive topic though and, unfortunately, people can be unwilling to hear negatives on it...

Most DC people will never meet their genetic parent and some spend their lives searching, never knowing who he is.

I watched a film called Anonymous Father's Day (unfortunately had to pay to watch) last week which you can rent on Vimeo. It featured DC adults talking about how they feel about being DC and the feeling that something is missing. I can't recommend it enough to anyone considering using DC, but it does cost $5.99 (not sure why in dollars not pounds but there you go)....

Dollywosits and RabbitSaysWoof - I can only speak on a personal level on this subject. I don't 'disapprove' of someone wanting to have children and encountering difficulties in doing so - for whatever reason - must be extremely hard.

However, I think that there must be better ways than DC. Co-parenting is one option, I don;t know very much about this, but a lesbian woman writing in comments on my blog recently was explaining that this is what she and her partner are about to do. It sounds fascinating.

They are going to have a child 'with' their friend who also wants to be a father. It is very well planned, they have considered and thought through the scenarios very thoroughly and have drawn up agreements etc (what happens if one of them dies, what happens if they separate etc etc).

I think we need to expand our thinking in this area and start thinking about solutions that don't deny children the same rights as everyone else in society.

Its just so emotive.

I really feel for women who can't have children the 'conventional' way but at the same time is it right that life is being created this way and that children are having to grow up and feel for the rest of lives a sense of unhappiness/loneliness that can never be fixed, qas a result of their conception?

DoaD - I've had a look at your blog - it's very sad but really enlightening. Can I ask you a few questions. Does the change in UK anonymity rules address some of your concerns/issues or do you think they make no difference? And have you always known you were DC?

I'm very interested in hearing your experiences (and those of oaksettle, despite what she may think).

Jollyphonics, I don't want to criticise your decision - of course I understand that people will have weighed up the pros and cons of these major decisions before they take them and I am sure they were difficult choices to make.

These days, when I talk to my own mother about this, I understand why she did what she did back then (although it affected our relationship for a long time). It took her a long time - but she understands how I feel now too and says, if she had known the things she knows now about DC, she wouldn't have done what she did. Or at least maybe would have done things in a different way.

To me, that is music to my ears because it means she understands how I feel about it. That's all I wanted - for her to acknowledge that it felt like a huge loss to me.

On a wider level, I am more saddened that there is such an industry around DC. When I say 'deliberately' denied access to their genetic history - that is just the fact of it. The whole practice of (and big bucks industry behind) DC is based on one person giving away/donating/abandoning (call it what you will) a child.

Yup - i think if the choice is for a child not to have a father or not to be born at all it's a no-brainer, i also think it's nonsense and patronising to think a child will always (ffs) feel 'unhappy' because of it - I'm sure the majority would accept it because they've never known any different.

Oh and yup - met my father a handful of times as a small child, never ever had an issue with not having a father in my life.

I said in my first post that you have to think beyond the baby. The baby is easy, the toddler, with the cosy stories of conception is easy, even the 8 yr old and possibly the teen is easy. The 18 yrs pass very quickly, when you look back, and you have to consider the adult - and the adult's children and grandchildren who are left with a void and lack of identity- which may, or may not, bother them.

OddFodd, I think the change in anonymity rules is a baby step towards change. In many other places in the world, 'donors' can remain anonymous meaning their genetic children will never be able to find them. I'm not a fan of DC in its current form. Generally, I think that I prefer the idea that we might come to set up (possibly more unusual) non-traditional families that would accommodate an intolerance to secrecy.

Ultimately, I think that it is every person's human right to know where they come from.

I didn't find out I was DC until I was an adult. There is an argument that DC people are fine as long as they are told early, but I know many who were told early and still feel the way I do. Also, there is also an argument that if you are bringing up a DC child and essentially raising it to believe that their 'donor' is irrelevant or unimportant, then it might be hard for that child to talk openly about their genetic curiosity...

That is quite different, EssexMummy.

But at least you had the opportunity to meet him and form your own opinions of him and have the relationship of your choice.

Children from sperm donation don't even have that luxury.

My last post was to essexmummy

But at 18 they are able to fill that void, if they wish to.

This is what mystifies me about this thread. I am sorry for those who feel lacking in some way in terms of identity or knowledge, but this was relevant pre-2005 but not so much now.

I know two lesbian couples each with a son and a daughter - I honestly can't believe anyone would have a problem with them having a child in this way.

It is all very confusing and emotive, and like many things in this category I think it's always best to have dialogue with those concerned, and enable people to speak out as much as they want to. I am hoping, desperately, that allowing my DC to talk as openly and angrily as they want will help us all find a peace with it.

Ironically I don't think I could ever be an egg donor (not that anyone would have wanted my crappy old eggs when I went through treatment) because I would feel that I was giving my child away and that he/she might be mistreated. But - and I'm massively generalising here - I don't think many men feel the same attachment to their sperm. In fact, some would argue that they're genetically programmed to spread it as far and wide as they can. As I understand it, egg donation can be done purely altruistically, but the vast majority of the time it's done in order to get a discount on IVF treatment, in the form of egg-sharing. Sperm donation, on the other hand, attracts no financial remuneration other than expenses being covered. This has nothing to do with the issues debated of course, but I think it shows how willingly some men will give up their sperm.

Thanks DoaD - that's food for thought

EssexMummy123 - I never said a child will 'always' feel unhappy because of it. I'm just attempting to explain how some of us DC feel.

Yes, many people may have crappy fathers, or absent fathers or whatever, but those guys were losers to start with and probably at some point, the idea was he would be around.

The difference is a 'donor' child will never have the option to discover if he's crappy or not. He has already abandoned the child. And more than that, most people, even if they have an absent parent, will know who he is. It is about knowing where you come from as much as anything.

I imagine that finding out information at 18yrs could cause more problems and not necessarily make it all OK.

i know I sound harsh, but isn't it a bit.....self indulgent? And overly self absorbed?
So you don't have a dad or know about your genetic heritage. Well neither do I. So yours was on purpose and mine was more accidental...well so what? Your birth was on purpose and mine was accidental, do they cancel each other out then?
There comes a time when you just get on with it. No daddy.....does it really matter? Isn't it something you just get over? A persons human right to know where they come from...its all very modern, this notion that you have some fundamental right to this ,that being alive, wanted, presumably healthy etc isn't enough for you.....its just such a tiny bit of the story. I can't understand the need to make it such a big deal.

blackandwhitecats - how can you imply that it's fine for a donors child to grow up never knowing their father or anything about him because they can find out more when they're 18?

You really think that's ok?

As has been said, what about the rights of the person that is being created?

Why is it that a woman's wish for a child overrides, what some would consider, the basic human rights of a child?

Mytwoblackandwhitecats - DC can only find out who their father is at 18, if they live in the UK and their raising parents have done it through the regulated system. Many people buy sperm from abroad, on the internet etc and many live in countries where donor anonymity is legal.

'I know two lesbian couples each with a son and a daughter - I honestly can't believe anyone would have a problem with them having a child in this way.'

I don't have a problem with anyone having a kid, as long as it has knowledge of where it comes from and ideally the possibility of having a relationship with both their genetic parents should they desire to.

Clearly it does matter to many. I don't know how you can possibly know unless you have been there.

Have you read her blog grockle?

And you think her feelings are nothing more than her just being self indulgent?