to wonder if UKIP is doing some kind od stealth campaign via mumsnet?

[goshhhhhh]

Sorry this is a thread about threads...just seems to me there is something weird going on.....

There are bigots in every party - don't kid yourself that the other parties are made up of earnest, well meaning, right thinking folk fighting the good fight for a better world. UKIP and other Parties like it are gathering momentum across Europe, and that doesn't mean that people who voted for the main parties until recently have suddenly become bigots, fascists or racists - something has caused this groundswell to happen, and the sooner the main parties sit up, remove their fingers from the collective backsides and start acknowledging there are problems with the political process the better.

Montegomongoose

Thank You! You articulated my feelings so much better than I did!

they represent the majority view

This is really interesting to me. The majority view is anti-EU, anti-immigrant, anti-scrounger, etc. The majority (incorrectly) believes we can't afford a healthy social support system; even that Britain is broke. The majority buys a vision of Britain as overrun with street crime, workshy scroungers, scary Muslamist bastards, and so on, which was mounted by the Tories "Broken Britain" schematic. Our mainstream media now feed this dystopian view, encourage xenophobia, and espouse 'bring back the birch' type solutions alongside 'batten down the hatches' ... ...

and yet ... Every major survey STILL shows the average Brit still believes in social support, the NHS, nationalised services & utilities, tolerance & integration, free education and community teamwork. The real views of our population are now significantly Left of the modern Labour party.

I can only suppose this contradiction arises from a truly desperate ignorance about politics and its relevance to our lives. Too many people want 'nice' Britain - the one our elders fought for, built out of nothing, kept us housed, healthy & educated, and was the envy of the world. We still want this! But - it seems to me - too few people understand how those things were created, or how national policy makes them weaker/stronger according to politics.

:( :( I can hardly bear thinking about it.

Has anyone blamed Thatcher for the existence of UKIP yet?

I can only suppose this contradiction arises from a truly desperate ignorance about politics and its relevance to our lives

Did you mean to sound so utterly patronising there?

something has caused this groundswell to happen

Yes, it was the banking crisis. Economic insecurity always presents opportunities for parties of 'control'. Viz Germany, 1930s.

Yes, Sirch, if you choose to see it that way. I spend a lot of time in political discussion groups of all flavours, and know how profound & widespread this ignorance is. To a large extent, I blame our manipulated media. Or, to be more accurate, those who manipulate them. You have to work extremely hard to get a balanced, reliable political input - it's much, much harder than 30 years ago.

Instead of taking a personally affronted stance, Sirch, you could have addressed either or both of my points.

No, I disagree (and I certainly don't think that UKIP can be compared to National Socialist German Workers Party). The 2 most commonly quoted reasons for voting UKIP that I can see is immigration and the EU - the greedy bastarding bankers banking crisis isn't topping the list of concerns.

SirC I appreciate that it is a complex picture and I can see why some people think there is a moral equivalence between political corruption and 'honest bigotry'. I don't agree, though.

I am also aware that a lot of non-bigots have voted UKIP - some have privately given me very good rationales. BUT the bigotry within UKIP is there and it is not all transparent. If you rehearse the possible moves on a chess board, I can't see further successes for UKIP ending well for the UK, although I have to declare a Londoner's perspective.

In any case, as you say, there is a europe wide picture, which I believe is essentially a belated and futile outcry against the unstoppable force is globalisation. If valid (non bigotted) concerns about the pace of immigration had been allowed to play out much sooner, many of these issues would have been debated and addressed by now. As it is, we have a champagne cork situation.

No Garlic - instead of posting such patronising twaddle you could have addressed the real issues surrounding the increased numbers of UKIP votes.

If you want me to say the real issues are immigration and the EU, I can't because they aren't. They're the current blame donkeys.

I might add: as Jews & Roma were for Germans. But I'm not getting into this all over again, not tonight.

I agree with you Fideline - I don't see it ending well, unless we have an honest and open political system (which is able to be understand by all these poor, ignorant people...) that addresses the concerns that have been raised through the ballot box, including (as you rightly say) the pace of immigration, and the perceived power and scale of the EU.

FidelineandFumblin The strategy is bearing fruit and call me Dave is entering into the spirit of the revolution.

caruthers revolutions are messy and best avoided.

caruthers revolutions are messy and best avoided.

I disagree.

The political class needs an overhaul and if the only way to do this is by revolution then that's what it takes.

pmsl at the thought that mumsnet is anything other than a labour stronghold. A few people have started UKIP threads and there is all this stuff starting about how we are being infiltrated. Heaven forbid there should be people of dissenting opinion on here.

I can't stand all this arrogance regarding political opinions you don't share. I am not even a UKIP voter.

As for not knowing about policies, not many people really DO know about party policies. Not referring to those that discuss stuff on here but more people like my mother who votes Labour just because...or my FIL who votes Tory just because..

YY to *I have wondered, given the ostentatious liberal colours flown over the years by many of these posters, whether this is what they teach their children: if you meet someone with different beliefs, don't bother listening to them, just pile straight in and call them horrible names.

It's been eye-opening, this ignorant invective.*

and also, do you really think UKIP are organised enough to infiltrate mumsnet? They can't get it together to properly vet their candidates.

I'm amazed that anyone would think that UKIP would see MN as the go-to place to infiltrate

do you really think UKIP are organised enough to infiltrate mumsnet?

"We should all spread the word on popular online fora" hardly requires top level military brains does it?

SirChenjin spot on posts.

Collective pearl clutching won't make UKIP go away neither will hiding threads or smearing vast swaths if the voting public as bigots and ignorant.

People are worried about the power of the EU over UK laws and immigration.

We all know these are concerns justified or not. They need to be addressed, debated and taken seriously by the main parties or god knows what will happen in the general election.

can you not believe that some people actually think differently to you without being employed by the actual party concerned?

I think that it is unlikely that they were organised enough to think of infiltrating mn. Did you not read about the steel band fiasco?

True Humphrey

It really doesn't take much in the way of organisation though, does it? I've been wondering the same thing, OP.

well it would be convenient for many of you if UKIP WERE infiltrating mumsnet and that is the explanation of all the dissenting opinion. Then you don't have to try to persuade or debate with actual people, you can write them off!

BUt lots of people (not me though) did vote UKIP. Many of them are talking about it on here.

So people are just trying to make a point? And what point is that, that they don't like forriners..?